Global Warming December 19, 2007
Posted by John A. Davison in general.trackback
I regard the future of our civilization to be in great jeopardy.
As a physiologist I regard man as a chemical machine obtaining energy through the oxidation of fuel just as other chemical machines do. Machines are rated in horse power; one horsepower is 746 watts. A 70 kilogram human at rest is producing heat, CO2, and H2O through the oxidation of food stuffs at a rate of about a tenth of a horsepower (80 watts). Accordingly, a human, when driving a typical automobile rated at 200 horsepower, is producing CO2 and H2O at a rate 2000 times greater than himself.
No other animal has the energy requirement of Homo sapiens. It is all due to the industrial society we have created. Everything we do produces CO2 far beyond that needed for our physiological maintenance as an animal. Coupled with this, we are by far the most numerous mammal on earth, approaching 7 billions – 7,000,000,000. No other mammal even comes close. There may be an equal number of chickens which contribute a substantial fraction of our animal food. These mind boggling numbers have led me to question if it is possible to sustain a civilization with such requirements. My intuitive, knee jerk, reaction, and that is all that it is, is a definite NO!
What I find amazing is the polarization that surrounds this issue. It is demonstated in the rallying cry of the skeptics invading the Bali Conference, shouting – “Have the courage to say no.” What could possibly ever be accomplished by such an attitude?
I recently discovered the book, “The Weather Makers” by Tim Flannery, an Australian climatologist and naturalist. Like myself, he has reached what can only be described as a doomsday forecast. While my concern is only intuitive, Flannery presents solid evidence that the changes we see taking place right now have already proceeded too far to be reversed. I recommend his book for all those interested in the future of the earth which, as far as we know, is the only planet in the universe supporting life in any form. The way things are progressing, Homo sapiens, the youngest and apparently last mammal species that will, in my opinion, ever appear may also prove to be the one with the shortest life span.
The only solution I can offer involves the reduction of our numbers by at least two orders of magnitude to around 70 million, or very roughly the world’s population prior to the industrial revolution a mere two centuries ago. It was that revolution that produced this result. Never in the history of the planet have such great changes taken place over such a short period of time.
I consider pandemic disease to be the most likely means by which this reduction will occur.
I realize this is a pessimistic forecast and with that in mind, I welcome the views of others.
“A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable.”
I would take Pascal’s wager.
The consequences of reducing carbon emissions unnecessarily are that we retain reserves of oil, coal and gas that we would otherwise have burnt.
The consequences of not reducing carbon emissions may be that global warming and climate change become unstoppable.
Reducing emissions seems a safer bet.
Alan Fox
Thanks for commenting. You are the first.
Global warming and drastic rapid climate changes are apparently already unstoppable, irreversible and in progress as we communicate. I do not see any of the proposed energy solutions as having any effect whatsover on that progress. The horse is out of the barn and has been for a very long time. I hope I prove to be wrong.
Your article on global warming:
I’ve been waiting for about two hours to post a comment on Townhall regarding
Ann Coulter’s latest article. Then I came across your website. What do you have in common with Ann Coulter, absolutely nothing, yet part of my post can be added to your article. As you know Ann hates evolution theory, just read her book “Godless”.
Periodically, when I feel like you do, I read again Donald Johanson’s “Ancestors”. Particularly the part where he discovers Lucy. She was about 3.5 ft tall, fully grown for her species, and when you see the picture of her, based on her remains, you would probably say she was a dead end in the evolutionary cycle.
Bur she wasn’t, she is your ancestor and my ancestor, we are both descendants of Lucy. How can I tell, because she walked upright like you and I do. Lucy walked on this earth 3.5 million years ago, and if someone so insignificant could survive to be our ancestor, we don’t have to reduce our foot print to 70 million people. We will survive, even if the planet heats up 5C in the next century, which by the way, it won’t!
A post script. I thoroughly enjoyed your article. Don’t exactly agree with it 100% but as my favorite literary character Hercule Poirot would say, “it got the little grey cells working”.
Russell, whoever that is.
I am a great fan of Ann Coulter, but she has made a very common mistake by identifying evolution as synonymous with Darwinism. Darwinism has never had anything to do with evolution beyond the elaboration of intraspecific varieties and the production of subspecies, none of which are anything but dead ends destined to extinction without signifcant further change. William Bateson described them as “blind alleys” before I was born! I agree. Incidentally, I think we are destined for extinction also. I sure hope I am wrong, Don’t you?
I attempted to communicate with Ann after her most recent column. I hope she reads her comments section.
Thanks for posting.
“A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable.”
John A. Davison
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=73#001093
Please note that Alan Fox has publicized this blog at After The Bar Closes.
Thank you Alan Fox.
Russell in post # 3
We do not know that Lucy was our ancestor. Lucy was only one of several potential ancestors. We are not even certain that the races of man share a common ancestor. It is within the potential of the PEH to deal with that possibility. One of the things that makes a reconstruction difficut is that the various products of evolution are all so distinctly different from one another. This is true not only for humanids but for other lineages as well. The various horse forms that constitute a so-called “evolutionary series” are so different from one another that they must be placed in separate genera. The same can be said for many if not all the series that the fossil record has disclosed. This is exactly what one would expect if a goal-directed process involved a stepwise restructuring of a common original block of chromosomal information as the PEH suggests. Many features are bound to be simultaneously affected by such a process. An important feature of most series is that they cease to change when the terminal state has been reached. This was true for the elephant, the giraffe, the lion and the whales. It seems that when that final “ideal” has been reached that extinction is the only further result that can be expected. The fossil record is replete with examples. Sometimes whole orders and families became extinct leaving no decendents. Sometimes whole phyla disappear as the Cambrian explosion and the Burgess Shale testify.
The most important feature of the evolutionary scenario has always been extinction for without it there could never have been progress. The Dinosaurs were programmed for extinction and would have disappeared with or without environmental catastrophes.
With Robert Broom, Julian Huxley and Pierre Grasse I am convinced that creative evolution is a phenomenon of the distant past. Just as ontogeny terminates with the adult organism and its death, so apparently has phylogeny terminated with the present biota and, in my opinion, its incipient extinction. I know of not a single large terrestrial species of the geological past that did not become extinct. I don’t think anyone else does either. The wooly mammoth is a recent example. How the Darwinians can assume that creative evolution continues is beyond my comprehension as it flies in the face of everything revealed in the one final, absolute and undeniable testament – the fossil record.
I realize this is not an optimistic scenario for Homo sapiens, but there is no guarantee in the search for the truth of a satisfactory result. Don’t blame me!
“A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=74#001098
I offer the above link to avoid duplication.
http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/why-global-warming-pundits-are-so-shrill/#comments
DaveScot/David Springer is now trotting out a newspaper editorial written by a global warming denier as Dave continues his crusade against those like myself who recognize that we face the greatest crisis in the history of the planet. Dave often cites questionable sources as long as they support his position. Not long ago it was Fred Singer, a moonie, notorious for denying a link between UV radiation and melanoma as well as between second hand cigarette smoke and cancer. Singer also prepared a document questioning global warming signed by scientists some of whom had not actually signed. That is pure chicanery. It is all documented in Tim Flannery’s book, “The Weather Makers.”
This time Springer is gleefully rubbing it into those of us who are so deranged as to be concerned about the effects that man so obviously has on his environment. He has also joined with those that descended on the Bali conference shouting “Have the courage to say no!” It is difficult for me to understand such a mentality. It certainly is not that of a scientist.
“Men believe most what they least understand.”
Montaigne
“It is abhorrent to me when a fine intelligence is paired with an unsavory character.”
Albert Einstein
A little research into David Deming, the author of the edtorial cited by Springer, reveals
http://eteam.ncpa.org/about/david-deming
Please note that one of the “EXPERTS” of that organization is S. Fred Singer!
I love it so!
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/environment/stories/MYSA120507.01A.storms.6b2aaaac.html
As this article reveals, the incidence of violent storms has increased significantly over the past sixty years. The hardest hit areas have been New England with a 61% increase and the Middle Atlantic States with a 42% increase. A national average of 24% increase since1948 correlates with similar increases in atmospheric CO2 concentrations measured continuously at the Hawaiian station over the same time period.
These are not cherry picked isolated events presented to support a political agenda, but hard data collected from 3000 unbiased weather stations. I predict that these trends will continue and I see no way that they will now be reversed. I wish I could be more optimistic but reality speaks otherwise.
“Men believe most what they least understand.”
Montaigne
“A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable.”
In correlation with the 24% increase in violent storms there has been a 21% increase in atmospheric CO2 concentrations as recorded at the Mauna Loa station over a similar time period.
Well come on DaveScot/David Springer or any other global warming denier. This is your opportunity to present your case in a neutral arena. If you fail to show that will become a matter of record. Trust me.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22203980/
I recommend this link for the global warming deniers, especially DaveScot/David Springer, the biggest bully in cyberdumb. The next step will be a slowing of the gulf stream. Step right up and place your responses here.
I love it so!
Following the slowing of the Gulf Stream, a great chill will descend upon all of western Europe as the warmth of of the Gulf Stream will no longer be in effect. These changes will occur much more rapidly than they did in the past because man has excessively increased the CO2 levels that now dominate the regulation of the earth’s climate. The earth has always experienced great oscillations in climate, but nothing even remotely approaching the rate at which they are now occurring.
It is the “rate of change” that distinguishes the present from the past.
A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable.
http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/why-global-warming-pundits-are-so-shrill/#comments
This thread over at Uncommon Descent is typical of DaveScot/David Springer’s continued efforts to minimize the reality of global warming. It is the whole earth that has warmed and continues to be warmed. That is no longer a matter for conjecture. Neither are the steady increases in CO2 atmospheric levels. These are documented realities. So is the thinning and disappearance of Arctic sea ice. Of course one can select isolated weather data to support any preconceived position which is all that any of his threads have done. Weather forcasters are not climatologists and many are not scientists of any description. The global warming which has probably not yet exceeded two degrees Fahrenheit worldwide has neverthless taken place at a rate of increase unprecedented as far as we know in the history of the earth. The same can be said for CO2 levels, annual floodings, annual heat deaths, devastating storms and a host of other record setting weather related phenomena. The fastest known warmings in the geological past involved 2 degrees F. per thousand years. As Tim Flannery has calculated, change today is taking place at a rate thirty times faster or 2 degrees per 33 years. The natural cycles of the earth have obviously been violently interrupted and are now being determined exclusively by the products of an industrial revolution a mere two centuries in duration, a period in which the human population of the earth has increased about one hundred fold. To continue to deny these realities is irresponsible, indefensible, foolhardy and dangerous.
What I cannot understand is the reason for this refusal to come to grips with reality. Is it due simply to pride or is it due to a knee jerk loathing of Al Gore? It smacks of a bizarre sort of right wing political conservatism and bull headedness which should have no place in science. Judging from some of the threads and comments at Uncommon Descent that is how it looks to this observer.
“A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable.”
http://www.iscid.org/boards/ubb-get_topic-f-6-t-000370-p-74.html
Note that David L. Hagen is accusing me of having my head in the sand. He is curious as one who identifies himself as David L. Hagen at “brainstorms” but as DLH at Uncommon Descent. I wouldn’t have known who DLH was if Alan Fox hadn’t told me.
I hope this helps explain my disdain for those who use aliases or who otherwise refuse to identify themselves.
One way I rate blogs is on the incidence of anonymity. Pharyngula, Panda’s Thumb, especially After The Bar Closes, and Uncommon Descent all rate high on the A.I. (Anonymity Index). So do Ben Stein’s blogs.
A.I is defined as the ratio of anonymous to known commenters Stated mathematically :
Q = K / (A.I.)
Q stands for quality.
Brainstorms, to its credit, has always had a low A.I. and accordingly a high Q. Unfortunately there is little activity there these days which itself is revealing. It seems the most active blogs are the least tolerant ones with Uncommon Descent topping the list as David Springer alone has banned more customers than have been banned from all other blogs and forums combined. He sometimes lets them back in so he can eject them again. It means the world to him!
Ergo:
Q = K’ / (B.I,)
B.I. is the ratio of the numbers of those who have been banned to those who have managed not to be banned. The latter are what I call the “groupthinkers.” Every blog has a healthy dose of them. They are the forum’s bread and butter!
These two equations can now be combined as follows:
Q = K” / [(A.I.) x (B.I.)]
“A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable.”
The longer this thread remains without evoking a response, the worse the Global Warming Deniers (GWDers) are going to look. Trust me as I will see to it here and elsewhere, wherever I haven’t already been banned.
Happy New Year
I love it so!
Incidentally, the reduction of the population of the earth does not require genocide. It only requires limiting children to one per couple as the Chinese are already implementing. The same two hundred years that led to a hundred fold increase could also largely reverse that process. My reference to pandemic disease was not a recommendation but rather a likely result of the breakdown of our institutions as global warming continues. Imagine what would happen if sea levels rose a mere 30 feet. In the past sea levels have varied by hundreds of feet. Or imagine if rapid climate change were to make water unavailable to our major cities. Atlanta Georgia at the moment is in a water crisis and Georgia’s Governor led a prayer for rain! Naturally it rained but not nearly enough.
Sea levels WILL rise dramatically and coastal cities WILL be abandoned long before this century closes. In my opinion there is nothing that we can do to prevent it. I further predict Global Warming Deniers (GWDers) will be scarce as hen’s teeth before this decade ends, possibly even before the 2008 election! I would sure like to be wrong but so far, in my fifty odd years as a scientist, I have never yet put anything in print that proved to be without foundation.
I emphasize again that it is the “rate of change” that is alarming, but only for some of us apparently. I am not alone.
“We have known for some decades that the climate change we are creating for the twenty-first century was of a similar magnitude to that seen at the end of the last ice age, but that it was occurring thirty times faster. We have known that the Gulf Stream shut down on at least three occasions at the end of the last ice age, that sea levels rose by at least 300 feet, that the earth’s atmosphere was profoundly reorganized, and we have known that agriculture was impossible before the Long Summer of 10,000 years ago. And so there has been little reason for our blindness, except perhaps an unwillingness to look such horror in the face and say, “You are my creation.”
Tim Flannery, The Weather Makers, page 210.
Just as the Darwinian Atheist Worshippers (DAWers) remain blind and unwilling to abandon their pathetic, ideologically driven mythology, so too are the Global Warming Deniers (GWDers) now doing exactly the same thing. Apparently they too were “born that way,” “prescribed” to be what they are!
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Men believe most what they least understand.”
Montaigne
Happy New Year
This is being exacerbated by the increased melting of the Greenland ice-shelf. The resultant reduction in salinity and consequent density of the cold water will speed up the process of stopping the Gulf stream. The British Isles are especially vulnerable.
Thank you Alan. For some reason your link is not legible.
http://www.iscid.org/boards/ubb-get_topic-f-6-t-000370-p-74.html
I provide this page where I am discussing global warming with David L Hagen/DLH who, like DaveScot/David Springer, is one of the deniers.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable.”
I recommend that everyone read and take seriously the link I introduced in comment # 14. It supports everything that Tim Flannery has predicted in his book “The Weather Makers,” except that the changes are occurring even faster than anticipated.
To modify the old saw abiut the horse that refused to drink -
“You can lead a man to the literature but you cannot make him read.”
Watch as the sea level soon begins to rise!
“A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable.”
This is for the anthropogenic Global Warming Deniers (GWDers).
Today in Vermont it is a balmy 60 degrees as tornados, fueled by warm moisture-laden air ravage the middle west. Flooding is also obviously on the increase.
We should remember that the other major product of the oxidation of fuel, whether it be glucose or gasoline, is water. Equal molecular amounts of CO2 and H20 are produced by the oxidation of glucose, The H2O/CO2 ratio is higher with more reduced substances like fuel oil and gasolne. Oddly, little attention has been paid to the water produced by oxidation as a contributor to global warming. However there is little doubt that over large portions of the world rainfall has been increasing and with it increased flooding made even more devastating by violent weather. (Tim Flannery, The Weather Makers, page 124). How much this increase is due to oxidation of fuel is unknown as far as I know.
The water produced by the oxidation of jet fuel appears as the condensed water (cloud) which streaks the sky showing the path of the jetliner. The water produced at higher temperatures is invisible like the CO2 but certainly contributes to the higher humidity in urban environments and crowded auditoriums.
“A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable.”
This is for DaveScot/David Springer and all the rest who deny anthropogenic global warming. Tune in to your favorite weather channel and learn that unprecedented January rainfall, severe flooding and devastating tornados are now ravaging much of the United States even as I type this message. I now revise my previous estimate. There won’t be an anthropogenic global warming denier (GWDer) to be found by this summer! Trust me or better yet – don’t. It is more fun that way! Winning sure beats losing and I have yet to lose on anything I have committed either to hard copy or to the ephemeral world of cyberdumb.
I love it so!
” A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable.”
Today, January 11, it is pouring rain in New Jersey and snowing in Baghdad, one more expression of the anthropogenic disruption of the world’s climate. I predict quarter size hail will soon be commonplace here in the USA. That is a size that does substantial damage. Watch the sea level begin to rise. Don’t say I didn’t warn you and there is absolutely nothing that can be done about it.
“A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable.”
“La commedia e finita.”
Pagliacci
Here is another prediction. Quarter size hailstones will be followed by golf ball size ones which will lead to the manufacture of automobiles with rubber roofs and hoods. How does that grab you? I hope it smarts!
I love it so!
**ATTENTION** DaveScot/David Springer and all the rest of the anthropogenic GWDers
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22643132/
Unlike the Arctic where there is only sea ice, the progressively increasing melting of Antarctic continental ice will definitely cause a rise in sea level. Don’t say I didn’t warn you and there is absolutely nothing we can do to prevent it! I predict peninsular Florida will disappear, probably within a decade.
“A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable.”
I have been deliberately provocative in what seems to be a vain attempt to flush my adversaries out of hiding to participate here. Instead they smugly pretend I do not exist, secretly hoping I will just go away which at my age is a sure thing! There is nothing new about this strategy. It is exactly the same tactic that was used against the many scientists that provided the raw material for my Prescribed Evolutionary Hypothesis. They were not allowed to exist by the atheist dominated Darwinian establishment.
All one has to do to prove this point is to examine the Bibliographies and Indices of the major works by the leaders of the Darwinian cult and see who is missing. It is not sufficient to examine the Bibliographies alone. Ernst Mayr listed the books by Pierre Grasse and Leo Berg in his Bibliography but made no reference to them in the text of his ponderous “The Growth of Biological Thought.” Stephen Jay Gould, in his even more ponderous “The Structure of Evolutionary Theory,” doesn’t even list Leo Berg’s “Nomogenesis,” Pierre Grasse’s “Evolution of Living Organisms” or either of Otto Schindewolf’s two great works, both of which are in Mayr’s Bibliography but virtually ignored in the text. To dismiss the contributions of the three greatest evolutionists of their day in such a cavalier fashion borders on criminal behavior. I can say without reservation about both Mayr and Gould the same thing I have said about Darwin. Not a word that either ever published had anything whatsoever to do with the origin of species or of any other taxonomic category. The same can be said for Richard Dawkins.
A similar scenario is now unfolding with Global Warming. Those who recognize it for what it is are being ignored by those with a purely ideological agenda that will not permit the existence of such heretics. The stakes are much higher than what they are for evolutionary theory but the tactics are much the same. When ideology confronts reality, ideology may carry the day but will never win the war. It never has and it never will!
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“If you tell the truth, you can be certain, sooner or later, to be found out.”
Oscar Wilde
“A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable.”.
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/
This is an excellent site which keeps up to date the CO2 levels recorded at the Mauna Loa laboratory in Hawaii. The levels continue to grow at overall somewhat increasing increments as a function of time. CO2 concentration is obviously not a simple linear function of time which makes it all the more ominous. It shows no sign of abatement.
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/
The scariest feature of this data is not only that the CO2 level increases each year, but the increment per year has more than doubled in the half century over which the data has been recorded. How this can continue to be ignored by so many remains a mystery to this investigator.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
Those that still question anthropogenic global warmong should watch the current weather reports as records continue to fall for precipitation amounts, tornado frequency and high winds. Several western areas have received rainfalls in seven days exceeding normal yearly amounts. Meanwhile -
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
John A. Davison
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
While I remain pessimistic about our ability to survive the present century no matter what we now do, I will neverthless offer some suggestions for what we now must do and should have been doing all along that would have helped avoid the present situation.
1. We must stop putting organic waste into land fills and existing land fills shoud be sealed and piped to recover the methane which they produce.
2. We must stop putting both human and animal waste into treatment plants which only add to atmosphreric levels of CO2. All animal waste (we are animals you know) should also be reduced anaerobically to natural gas, largely methane, so it can substitute for dwindling oil reserves and thereby contribute to our energy independence. Accordingly, the flushed toilet should be eliminated in its present configuration so that our excrement can be 100% recoverable. Models for this already exist in some of the more advanced agricultural systems. Composting toilets are one solution but involve an extensive collection and distribution system. I am sure technology can provide a more efficient answer.
3. All organic run off which pollutes our lakes, streams, ground water and ultimately the sea must be curtailed.
4. Through hydroponics on a grand scale, our lakes must be cleansed of phosphates and nitrates and returned to their original oligotrophic pristine states. I believe this technology can also be applied to the sea which continues to be mankind’s ultimate sewer.
5. It is not sufficient just to stop what we have been doing. We must reverse the actions which have led to the present, actions that were of negligible consequence a mere 200 years ago when the Industrlal Revolution first began, but now pose a nightmare for our future.
6. The number of offspring per couple must be reduced to one with severe fines for those who violate an international agreement to that effect. At present only China has such a policy, much to their credit. Failure to realize this standard will inevitably lead to pandemic disease, world wide famine and continuing wars.
None of these essential actions are now in effect which is one of the reasons I remain so pessimistic concerning our future.
In a mere 200 years man has increased his numbers 100 fold, thoroughly polluted his environment, frightfully upset the balance of Nature, and by so doing has embarked on what can only be described as mass suicide. Just as death terminates ontogeny, so it seems that the final product of an ascending phylogeny is ensuring his own extinction and with it all that has been achieved by the final product of an obviously planned evolution. It seems to me that the so-called “Age of Technology” is proving to be the last great age involving the human animal, not only the youngest mammal at present but also the one “prescribed,” like everything else in the evolutionary scenario, to be, so it appears, the one with the shortest life span, probably under 150,000 years.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
I welcome responses from those who agree with my assessment as well as from those who do not. I cannot imagine a topic of greater significance. Can anyone?
“A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable.”
It is now nearly six weeks since I introduced this thread and not a single comment has surfaced, pro or con, concerning what I regard as the greatest crisis ever faced by mankind. I am flabbergasted at this lack of interest. What can I say but -
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
John A. Davison
Do you remember how in #26 I predicted quarter-size hail would soon fall?
It is, in the Gulf states, as I type! Golf ball hail is next. That is the size that can really hurt you! I also believe that this month may prove to be the warmest Vermont January in the history of record keeping.
“A past evolution is undeniable, a present evoluition undemonstrable.”
I am delighted to learn that John McCain has placed global warming high on his list of concerns, thereby joining Tony Blair and Al Gore in recognizing the grave threat that elevating CO2 levels pose to our civilization, even to our survival. Now we can only pray that Hillary Clinton will be his adversary in November.
As Judge Bork, who taught both the Clintons in Law School, put it -
“They were socialists then, they are socialists now.
Surely this will evoke a response from DaveScot/David Springer, the most vocal denier of anthropogenic global warming and the biggest bully in all of cyberdumb. Let us hear from Dave, the world’s expert on just about everything. Speak or hold your piece! To use your favorite expression -
“Got that? Write that down.”
I love it so!
“A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable.”
It is interesting that as Super Tuesday unfolds, storms ravage the South with over twenty known deaths so far, and New Orleans is under a tornado watch as I type. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.
“Mankind fiddles as earth burns.”
John A. Davison
The death toll from yesterday’s 68 tornadoes has now reached 50. The United States is especially vulnerable to violent storms and hurricanes because the Gulf of Mexico, unlike the Mediterranean Sea, is a very deep heat reservoir and source of the warm water vapor which is the fuel for these storms. The amount of water vapor in the air above oceans has increased by 1.3% per decade since 1988. Gulf waters have warmed far more than the world wide average of slightly less than one degree F. (Tim Flannery, The Weather Makers, page 311).
There is little doubt that tornadoes, snow storms, blizzards, hurricanes and flooding will all continue to increase in frequency and violence in the future. Record high temperatures continue to be broken as well. I forsee nothing that can be done to prevent it. Neither does anyone else.
It is interesting that it was Gregor Mendel who first understood the cause of tornadoes. It was his meticulous record keeping that allowed him also to discover the ratios associated with sexual reproduction, a reproductive mode which had and still has absolutely nothing to do with creative evolution except to ensure ultimate extinction.
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
John A. Davison
I refer to my comment # 57 on the “Evolution is Finished” thread.
http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/tornadoes-and-global-warming/#comments
DaveScot/David Springer, incapable of objectivity, now finds it necessary to call Global warming alarmists “ASSHATS.” Among us are John Kerry, John McCain, Tony Blair and of course John A. Davison, one of Dave’s favorite targets.
The odd thing is the way Dave supports my evolutionary science at the same time that he rejects my perspective on just about everything else!
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/tornadoes-and-global-warming/#comments
I am going to make a prediction about this thread. We scientists love to make predictions you know. I predict it will evoke very few comments from his clientele, many of whom live in mortal fear of banishment.
http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/tornadoes-and-global-warming/#comments
Only 5 comments to date.
It was the Industrial Age, a mere two centuries in duration, that created this nightmare. The last half of that age, the twentieth century, marks what we now call the Age of Technology. It is ironic that the invention of the transistor made possible world wide communication available to every citizen of the civilized world. That capacity to communicate is what made it possible to warn and thereby save lives. Without that technology there might have been thousands of fatalities from the recent outbreak of tornadoes. Springer and the other deniers don’t seem to realize that it is not just hurricanes and tornadoes that are on the increase. Records are being broken for flooding, snow storms, precipitation amounts, high destructive winds and wild temperature fluctuations as well. February tornadoes are rare. We haven’t even got into the tornado season yet. It is all due to the fact that the Gulf of Mexico has become substantially warmer than the world ocean average. Obama’s notion that New Orleans should be rebuilt is insane. Florida’s real estate sales are already approahing all time lows. It will soon be under water. The whole of peninsular Florida is only 8 feet above high tide. Both poles are rapidly melting. I now predict that no matter what we now do, Florida will be awash by 2018. It is already running out of potable water.
I find it unthinkable that so many can remain so monumentally unaware of what is happening to our planet.
I am sorry to have to predict that this spring and summer are going to be a weather nightmare unpecedented in the history of record keeping. I pray that I am wrong.
As for those who deny this scenario -
“We seek and offer ourselves to be gulled.”
Montaigne
Only some of us Michel!
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=78#001162
This page link is to conserve valuable cyberspace and also includes material relating to Pharyngula Zed Myers which I will copy to the “Why Banishment?” thread as well.
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=78#001170
To save cyberspace.
I just heard on Fox News that Mayor Bloomberg now claims that global warming poses a greater threat than Islamo-Fascist terrorism. Thank you Mayor Bloomberg. How do you like them apples David Springer and all the rest of you illiterate blowhard deniers out there in cyberdumb? I hope it gives you all the runs!
I love it so!
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
Today here in Vermont the thermometer hit 50 degrees melting much of the recent snow. Tomorrow the temperature will probably plunge, another feature of the unstable weather that has come to characterize North American climate changes. It is all due to a hotter than normal Gulf sending moisture laden air to react with Arctic cold fronts which fuel torrential rains, flooding and devastating tornados. Warm air holds more water than cold air and when they collide all hell breaks loose.
Michael Bloomberg is just one of several world leaders to recognize the perils associated with global warming. Others include Margaret Thatcher, one of the first, Tony Blair from the opposite political aisle, Al Gore who pioneered the movement here in the United States and most recently Arnold Schwarzeneger and John McCain. The tide is definitely turning. Unfortunately, in my opinion, it is much too late.
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
Soon I will be saying -
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
John A. Davison
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=80#001189
I refer you to the above link where I respond to DaveScot/David Springer, the most egomaniacal bully of all time and a world expert on just about everything, in this case, global warming.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
I love it so!
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
I find it amazing that so many are denying the devastasting effects that man is having on his environment, effects that clearly began with the industrial revolution slightly over 2 centuries ago and continue to accelerate.
It is one thing to remain skeptical but to claim that global warming is a hoax as Springer continues to do, borders on the criminal. He is not the only one. Other “blog bullies” are doing the same. Meanwhile, hard data from unbiased sources tells a different story, a story of impending disaster. I have linked in this thread to those sources and I take them very seriously.
It is becoming increasingly obvious to me that no one takes me seriously, so I will quote from one for whom I have the highest respect as researcher, naturalist and climatologist. I have only added my emphasis in caps for those with reading comprehension disabilities.
“We have known for some decades that the climate change WE ARE CREATING for the twenty-first century was of a similar magnitude to that seen at the end of the last ice age, but that it was occurring THIRTY TIMES FASTER. We have known that the Gulf Stream shut down on at least three occasions at the end of the last ice age, that sea levels rose by AT LEAST 300 FEET, that the earth’s biosphere was profoundly reorganized, and we have known that agriculture was impossible before the Long Summer of 10,000 years ago. And so there has been little reason for our blindness, except perhaps an unwillingness to look such horror in the face and say “YOU ARE MY CREATION.”
Tim Flannery, The Weather Makers, page 210.
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns”.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/04/0420_040420_earthday.html
I find the above site very objective in describing the effects and causes of global warming. However, I do not feel it is nearly alarmist enough to suit my fancy. I think the time estimates for sea levels to become disastrous are way too far in the future. I predict that we will see marked increases in the rate of sea level increase before the end of this decade. If the Greenland ice sheet starts melting and it probably already has, every coastal city in the world will be doomed in short order. They are already growing brocolli in Greenland, something DaveScot/David Springer celebrates as a good thing!
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
The recent drop in global temperature is exactly what is to be expected as the poles both melt. The heat of fusion of water, 80 calories per gram, is also the heat which must be consumed when ice melts. That heat is being drawn from the atmosphere. Thus what the Anthropogenic Gobal Warming Deniers (AGWDers) now celebrate is actually the prelude to disaster. The regulation of the earth’s climate has always been in a delicate balance, a balance no longer in effect as man made CO2 has, over the course of a mere two centuries, completely dominated the future of the earth. It is not a pretty picture. I honesty don’t believe there is anything we can do to prevent a disaster which will occur much sooner than the current models predict.
I don’t enjoy being pessimistic but I have a responsibility as a citizen and a scientist to do what must be done, which is to tell it the way I see it based on what the hard data reveal. That I will continue to do. I am not alone in presenting a pessimistic future..
“There is one impact that results from global warming, however, that is unobtrusively manifesting itself and is being felt on all continents approximately equally: All of them are shrinking. This is because, courtesy of heat and melting ice, the oceans are expanding.
Is this a threat to humanity? Let’s see how far the waters will rise, and at what speed.”
Tim Flannery, The Weather Makers, page 141.
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
John A. Davison
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/2006-03-23-sea-level-rise_x.htm
Here is another important source of information although two years out of date. Unlike sea ice which does not increase sea levels very much when it melts, the melting of the Greenland ice sheets, already in progress, will. Watch those sea levels rise folks and ask yourself what can we do we about it? The answer is nothing, absolutely nothing!
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
Steve Forbes in his editorial for the March 10, 2008 edition of FORBES has ridiculed the idea of an anthropogenic basis for global warming, ending his editorial with – “But carbon dioxide? No way.”
That is very sad to hear. All I can say is I will probably not renew my subscription.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Men believe most what they least understand.”
Montaigne
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
John A. Davison
Fox News just forecast tornado warnings and “Baseball-Size Hail” for the Gulf Coast. I didn’t know hail stones got that big!
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
John A. Davison
On Fox News I just heard John Coleman, founder of the weather channel, lampooning CO2 as contributing to global warming.. This man has no credentials as a scientist or even a climatologist. He is your “friendly weatherman” and nothing more. Among other errors he described CO2 as an element.
DaveScot/David Springer trotted out this clown as an expert a while back and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him do it again. I hope he does so I can link to it here.
I love it so!
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
DaveScot/David Springer
I have an experiment for you to do right in the confines of your own little mansion. Find an unheated closet and put in it a 50 pound block of ice in a bucket, shut the door and periodically peek in to take the temperature. let me know what you find out.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
I love it so!
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/
Meanwhle, real scientists continue to amass real data that leave no doubt that CO2 increases in concentration in the atmosphere in direct correlation with worldwide increases of precipitation, violent weather, melting of both poles and rising sea levels.
Unfortunately -
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=81#001204
especially my two comments today, March 7, 2008.
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/now-this-is-interesting-pielke-on-dr-joanne-simpson/#comments
Apparenty I have been baned from further participation at the above weblog as well. My last message has not appeared. It would be #116. It was thoroughly objective and without rancor. Once more we witness the isolationist, protectionist posture of most weblog heads as they muzzle those with whom they differ. These are the same personalities that will never appear here where they know that everything they say will become a matter of record. That they dare not risk. Their intolerance further supports my contention that popularity and tolerance stand in inverse relationship to one another.
The primary goal for most internet forum heads is to attract as many followers as possible, whatever it takes. This is just one more example. That is not a game I intend to play.
“Thus conscience does make cowards of THEM all.”
After Shakespeare
There are sins of omission as well as those of commission.
“Birds of a feather flock together.”
Cervantes
“Our actions should be based on the ever-present awareness that human beings in their thinking, feeling, and acting are not free but are just as causally bound as the stars in their motion.”
Albert Einstein
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
John A. Davison
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/now-this-is-interesting-pielke-on-dr-joanne-simpson/#comments
I have been readmitted at the above blog thanks to the intervention of Evan Jones. That is an encouraging sign, What do you think the probability of that happening at Panda’s Thumb, RichardDawkins,net, Uncommon Descent or Pharyngula. might be? I say one in a million. What say others?
I also offered my views below on a thread introduced by Evan Jones for whom I have respect.
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/03/08/who-decides/#comments
Check this out folks -
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/now-this-is-interesting-pielke-on-dr-joanne-simpson/#comments-
Watts found it necessary to close the thread on which I was presenting opinions in variance with his own. Blogbullies are like that wherever you find them. He will probably do the same thing on the other thread where I have presented my views. At least he hasn’t banished me — YET! There is more than one way to skin that Davison cat. I know them all and of course -
I love it so!
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
It is not only the Unied Sates that is experiencing unprecendented violent weather. So is the United Kingdom. This coming summer is going to be a weather nightmare as both poles continue to melt and atmospheric CO2 concentrations continue to climb. Meanwhile, at Watts Up With That -
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=81#001210
The above message and its link summarizes my recent experience at Watts Up With That? and its intolerant, insecure, protectionist owner – Anthony Watts. It has proved to be just one more intellectual ghetto and “groupthinktank.”
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=81#001211
To avoid duplication my comments above were added about an hour ago.
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/03/08/who-decides/#comments
I am again commenting at the above site which I take to be an encouraging sign. I am disappointed in the lack of participation here on a subject of such importance.
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
I understand John Coleman, founder of The Weather Channel, plans to sue Al Gore. I think that is a grand idea as it will bring the issue of Global Warming to the forefront of the news where it most certainly belongs. Personally, I think he has about as much chance as a snowball in hell (to use a weather analogy).
I love it so!
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.” (past tense).
I note that a tornado has just done substantial damage to Atlanta Georgia. I anticipate a devastating Spring and Summer as abnormally warm, moisture laden Gulf air colliides with cold fronts to produce more and more violent weather, while atmospheric CO2 and H2O vapor concentrations continue to climb with each passing day.
It is no fun for me to see my pessimism verified, especially with the realization that we are helpless to deal with it.
Mankind fiddled while earth burned,”
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/03/08/who-decides/#comments
Please visit the above thread to discover that Watts has closed this thread where I have been commenting as well. He says it is just for the week end but I doubt he will reopen it.
I expect to be treated with contempt as it has become commonplace. I have even come to relish it as it indicates I am on the right track on the global warming issue just as I am on the evolution question. Each of these very important areas remain dominated by congenital predispositions that are incompatible with an objective view of the natural world. We are all victims of our predetermined fates. Some of us have been luckier than others. Some of us were never meant to be scientists but pretend to be.
I deeply resent the way they treat Tim Flannery, a distinguished biologist, naturalist and a first rate scientist. It reveals a profound insecurity among those who continue to dismiss us alarmists as misguided fools. We will soon see who the fools have been.
I love it so!
“Meine Zeit wird schon kommen!”
Gregor Mendel
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=81#001215
Consider my comment which just appeared at “brainstorms.”
If the F2 tornado that ripped through Atlanta last night had occurred during daylight hours, there is no doubt that thousands would have died. More is due today and in the days to come.
How much longer can this insane denial continue? What will it take? How many must die?
Not that there is anything that can be done about it because there isn’t, except to agree with Pogo -
“We have met the enemy and it is us.”
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
Not any longer it isn’t!
Welcome to the twenty-first, the last century for civilization as we have known it.
“Everything is determined… by forces over which we have no control.”
Albert Einstein
“Mankind fiddled as earth burned.”
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/03/12/new-ams-draft-policy-statement-links-hurricane-katrina-and-climate/#comments
My comment, #15, is awaitimg moderation and I bet it won’t survive.
Tornados ordinarily do not occur in mountainous areas because they need flat expanses in order to develop. Large cities typically act like miniature mountains by disrupting the tornado, but the F2 tornado like the one that struck Atlanta is an entirely different matter. That makes the recent weather events all the more ominous. The weather of today is obviously fundamentally different from the weather of even a half century ago. It is far more violent. As for the future, as Al Jolson used to say after his first song, -
“You ain’t heard nothin’ yet.”
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=82#001217
As you can see, my brief stint at Watts Up With That? is over with.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.mb.ec.gc.ca/air/summersevere/ae00s12.en.html
This link explains the Fujita tornado ratings which range from F1 to F5. The Atlanta tornado of the 14th of March was only a F2. It looks to me as if a substantial portion of our economic wealth will be spent constantly replacing and repairing the damage done by severe weather. It is not a promising prospect.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=82#001219
Just to bring things up to date and preserve my ancient fingers.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
Meanwhile, as DaveScot/David Springer, David L Hagen and Anthony Watts continue blindly and stubbornly to deny man’s effects on his environment, storm after storm devastate The United States, setting records for precipitation, dangerous flooding, high winds and tornados. Each day’s weather gets worse. We should remember that the other product of the oxidation of fossil fuels is water, with carbon dioxide the major greenhouse gases.
“A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.”
Groucho Marx
The Fox Weather Center is aptly titled EXTREME WEATHER. Is there any other kind these days? Not that I can see.
Never before in the history of the planet have climate and weather changes taken place so rapidly.
“So it is the rate, not the direction or over all scale of change, that is important.”
Tim Flannery, The Weather Makers, page 169.
“And so there has been little reason for our blindness, except perhaps an unwillingness to look such horror in the face and say, “You are my creation.”
The Weather Makers page 210.
“We have met the enemy and it is us.”
Pogo
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
It is not only our political preferences, our belief or lack of belief in a Creator, our taste in clothing, toothpaste, pets, wives, food and alcoholic beverages that are predetermined, as they have been proven to be; I have come to the conclusion that our congenital biases include whether humans are able or not to comprehend the daily weather reports!
Am I the only person in the range of this weblog that recognizes what is happening to the planet? So it would seem as Anthony Watts and his loyal band, and DaveScot/David Springer with David L Hagen and their equally devoted followers blindly continue to ignore the testimony of a natural world gone utterly insane.
The Dallas / Fort Worth airport has preemptively canceled seven hundred flights in advance which will affect every other airport in the nation because of a weather cell that is stalled in Texas. Day after day hail, high winds, tornados, torrential rains paralyze our infrastructure. Roadways are being washed out from the Ohio river valley to the Atlantic coast. They are predicting 10 to 12 inches of rain in certain areas, areas already saturated. The constant repair of our infrastructure will consume our economy as we refuse to even recognize a losing battle with the forces of nature. It is my opinion that we are witnessing the death of Western Civilization, a death we brought upon ourselves over the course of little more than two hundred years.
It should surprise no one that I have reached the conclusion that it is already too late. Don’t say I didn’t warn you all because I did. It boggles my ancient mind that so much stupidity can persist in the face of so much devastation.
It is fitting that it should be Texas, the home of DaveScot/David Springer, the most arrogant, the most vocal, the most condescending denier of man’s effect on his environment, that is currently bearlng the brunt of the most sustained outbreak of violent weather in the history of record keeping. That record has only just really begun in earnest and I predict that in the days and weeks ahead things will get very much worse. It will be followed by world wide rising sea level and the abandonment of coastal cities as both poles continue to melt.
Those who can still deny this certainty are fools.
“You ain’t heard nothin’ yet!
Al Jolson
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/03/18/deja-vu-all-over-again-climate-worries-today-also-happened-in-the-20s-and-30s/#respond
I see that Anthony Watts continues to consider the present weather picture as similar to those of the past. That is absurd. The devastation now in progress has no precedent and those who think it has are fools.
Mankind has converted his precious earth into a latreen and done so over a mere two centuries. We will soon be drowning in our own urine. Trust me, but of course you won’t. That is the way it is supposed to be, the way it was “prescribed” to be.
“Everything is determined…by forces over which we have no control.”
Albert Einstein
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
John A. Davison
As precipitation continues to increase, low lying land will be converted to swamps which produce methane, another greenhouse gas. This will generate a positive feed back leading to more and more global warming. We may soon be forced to grow rice instead of corn. How others can ignore this crisis escapes my understanding, but that they do is obvious.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/the-mystery-of-global-warmings-missing-heat/#comments
Meanwhile, DaveScot/David Springer, congenitally incapable of changing his mind, goes right on praising the virtues of a hot, wet, high CO2 world when there is not a shred of evidence that CO2 is ever a limiting factor in the natural world and excess water produces swamps, an anaerobic environment condusive to the production of methane, another green house gas. How far out of touch with reality can one possibly be? I will answer that question. Just as far out of touch with reality as Anthony Watts and his loyal band are. That is far out!
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddles while earth burns.”
Here is a question for DaveScot/David Springer and DLH/David L. Hagen. What good is a wet, warm, CO2 rich environment when our soil is being washed into the Gulf of Mexico and our roadways are being destroyed? What do you “experts” offer as a remedy or do you still pretend there is no problem?
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
Maybe this will work.
***ATTENTION***
DaveScot/David Springer, David L Hagen/DLH, Anthony Watts, and all the others who are so out of touch with the real world that they continue to deny anthropogenic global warming. I will let others speak for me.
“In view of the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity.”
Konrad Adenaer
“A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.”
Groucho Marx
“Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former.”
Albert Einstein
As for myself -
“I am in the prime of senility.”
Benjamin Franklin
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/climate-facts-to-warm-to/#comments
I see DaveScot/David Springer is still questioning anthropogenic global warming, this time basing his opinion on an interview between a couple of “think tank experts.”
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
For my further thoughts on the above I refer to -
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=83#001233
comment March 24 18:58
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
***Attention***
DaveScott/David Springer, DaVID L Hagen/DLH, Anthony Watts and all your many “prescribed,” “born that way” devoted followers.
I see with this morning news that another chunk of Antarctica has just tumbled into the sea, this one the size of Manhattan. A piece the size of Connecticutt will be next!
Watch those sea levels folks and don’t say that Tim Flannery and John A. Davison didn’t warn you.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
To the same herd of congenital deniers I ask – How can you possibly continue to ignore what is happening even as I type this message? Are you all blind as well as deaf? Look and listen to Fox News Extreme Weather (as if there was any other kind these days). Has this nation ever before in its history experienced such a continuous period of violent weather? I say it has not. This spring and summer will be a nightmare. Trust me but of course you won’t. That suits me just fine! I’d rather be right than be Anthony Watts, DaveScot/David Springer or DLH/David L. Hagen!
I have revised my dismal forecast. We will exhaust all our resources frantically trying to repair the damage being done to our infrastructure. That will prove to be impossible. We won’t have to wait for sea levels to rise which they most certainly will continue to do at an accelerating rate.
Ted Turner’s forecast that we soon will be practicing cannibalism may prove to be right although I suspect mass suicide to be more likely. The taboos against cannibalism are stronger than those against suicide. For what it’s worth, practicing cannibals describe human as “long pork.” I wouldn’t know myself.
“In view of the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity.”
Konrad Adenauer
“A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a chlld of five.”
Groucho Marx
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
John A. Davison
Always the eternal optimist, I just put in a bed of asparagus, hoping that both I and the planet will still be around in the three years it will take for the asparagus to begin yielding a crop. One reason I am so aware of what is happening to the rest of the United States is because we have been largely immune to violent weather here in Vermont. Part of it is because it is mountainous and tornados don’t usually develop in mountainous areas. We are also far enough inland so that hurricanes are pretty much spent by the time they reach us. Nevertheless, like the planet generally, we have received a greater than normal amount of precipitation which has been great for the ski industry.
I just thought I would introduce a note of optimism on a nice Spring day even though elsewhere things look pretty grim. Maybe I am just trying to convince myself that I am wrong about the prognosis I have presented here. On balance I still have to say -
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
John A. Davison
http://www.iscid.org/boards/ubb-get_topic-f-6-t-000370-p-84.html
5:40 AM April 15
Please note that DaveScot/David Springer is still denying man’s role in global warming. Note especially his arrogant introduction to the comments section -
“I love being right.”
He is right about something that hasn’t even happened yet – this year’s hurricane season!
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
Keep fiddling Dave!
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=84#001249
I share these comments which I just presented at “brainstorms ” forum, one of the very few venues where I am still allowed to comment.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
To save valuable cyberspace -
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=84#001252
April 18, 10:04
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=84#001255
comment 5:39, April 25.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
I remind all of my message #76 on this thread in which I predicted that violent weather would contuinue into the Spring and Summer months. Yesterday’s devastation of Suffolk, Virginia certainly supports that dismal forecast. The miracle is that there was no loss of life. How the Anthropogenic Global Warming Deniers (AGWDs) like DaveScot/David Springer, David L. Hagen/DLH, and Anthony Watts manage to ignore these developments is beyond my comprehension. I guess they are too busy waiting for the sunspots which stubbornly refuse to appear! Meanwhile records for violent weather, flooding and precipitation continue to be broken.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“A child of five would understand this. Send somone to fetch a child of five.”
Groucho Marx
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=85#001262
comment May 2, 17:18
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned,”
http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/wikipedias-zealots/#comments
I see DaveScot/David Springer is still questioning the reality of climate change. I wonder how many will have to die before he changes his mind.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=85#001271
my comment May 12, 6:32
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
I see that John McCain has now come out recognizing an anthropogenic global warming, joining with Margaret Thatcher, Tony Blair, Michael Bloomberg, Al Gore and many other world leaders.
Never fear folks, we have nothing to be concerned about acording to David “I love being right” Springer, David L. “Big Oil” Hagen and Anthony “sunspots” Watts.
Meanwhile, both poles continue to melt, precipitation increases world wide, and violent weather, flooding and tornadoes ravage the United States. It is only going to get worse. Don’t pretend that Tim Flannery and John A, Davison didn’t forecast this hideous state of affairs. I do not believe it can now be reversed.
“A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.”
Groucho Marx
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=85#001275
To save valuable cyberspace, my comment 4:58 today, May 16.
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=85#001278
Once again DaveScot aka David, “I love being right,” Springer continues to deny anthropogenic global warming and once again I attempt to explain to Springer where he is once again dead wrong.
My comment May 20, 2008, 20:43
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/boards/ubb-get_topic-f-6-t-000370-p-86.html
My comment May 28, 4:41
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=86#001288
My comment, May 28, 4:40, and the one that follows as well!
I love it so!
While I believe it is much too late to avert catastrophe, I now propose what could have prevented the impending crisis if we had acted soon enough.. All coal fired generation of electricity should have been replaced long ago by nuclear generation of electricity. All surface vehicles should by now be electrically powered with charging taking place either at home or at a network of stations replacing all present fuel outlets. Only aircraft would be dependent on fossil resources. I believe this would have been a realistic solution long term solution. I also believe electrically compressed air is a realistic energy source for commuter transportation where long sustained power is not a requirement. Air when compressed is heavy. The technology for all these solutions exists at present. The present gas/electric hybrid vehicles have no long term future. The production of carbon dioxide and water vapor produced through conventional oxidation should have ceased long ago. We have grossly insulted the balance of nature and are now paying the price for it.
I would appreciate any response these ideas might produce.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
Judging from the persistent increase of violent weather, obviously correlated with global warming, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if an F5 tornado came sweeping down the Potomac and decapitated the center of our government. How is that for alarmism? Is that alarmist enough?
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
The reason the tornados and flooding is limited to the eastern 2/3 of the country is because it is that fraction that is receiving the moisture laden air from the Gulf of Mexico. When that air collides with cooler air from the prevailing westerlies, violent tornados, hail storms, excessive precipitation and consequent flooding are the result. As I predicted months ago, this can only get worse as the concentrations of anthropogenic CO2 and H20 vapor continue to increase in the atmosphere.
I wonder just how much longer David “I love being right” Springer, David L. “big oil” Hagen and Anthony “sunspots” Watts will continue to deny the obvious, which is that ALL this devastation is due ENTIRELY to human activity.
I earlier predicted that the deniers would be scarce as hen’s teeth before the end of this decade. I now revise that prediction. They will be an embarrassment to themselves before the end of this calendar year and perhaps even sooner.
At the rate things are progressing, we will soon have zero unemployment as every able bodied citizen will be forced to join in the hopeless task of trying to fix an environment already destroyed beyond repair. It is obvious that there will be no corn crop this year as the entire corn belt is presently submerged. Mass starvation is inevitable, a result I also predicted long ago.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
As for my grim predictions on our future, let me paraphrase David Springer’s arrogant “I love being right” -
“I loathe being right.”
As the weather season progresses it is becoming increasingly obvious that we are witnessing the demise of the United States as a world power. I sure don’t envy the next President.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25254541/
Today MSN news asks the question – Could the floods be due to man?
I answer – Is there any question?
Then they suggest it is due to the fact that we have “altered the landscape.” That is utter hogwash. There is one reason only and that is the increasing concentrations of CO2 and H2O vapor in the atmosphere.
We are not witnessing “flooding cycles” either. There is nothing “cyclic” about what man has done to his environment. Those that exhibit this mentality are dangerous fools. The simple truth is that it is much too late to do anything about the destruction we have wreaked over the course of the last two centuries. Only after our numbers are reduced by at least two orders of magnitude will there ever be any chance of reversal. That reduction will undoubtedly take place in the present century and it will not be voluntary. Mass starvation, coupled with disease, is right around the corner.
How is that for alarmist? Is that alarmist enough? Probably not!
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“In view of the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it seems unfair that the he did not also limit his stupidity.”
Konrad Adenauer
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
John, I am in full agreement that we are now in a truly precipitous period in our relationship with this world. Having just moved to Kansas and witnessed (via newscast) the tornado in Manhattan I am not surprised by the answer I get when I ask native Kansans “Is it like this every year?”- They all say the same thing “It hasn’t been this bad since I can remember”. Luckily I have not had the misfortune of experiencing one in my home.
Brian Caserto.
I suggest you find some place other than Kansas to settle in. Stay away from the sea coast, arm yourself and head for higher ground. That is what I have done.
South Burlington, Vermont
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/
Pease note that Anthony “sunspots” Watts is still denying an anthropogenic gobal warming.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
John, Ive always liked Burlington. I am not tempted to settle down in Kansas, but a friend just sent me this : http://wbztv.com/slideshows/New.Hampshire.Tornado.20.591273.html
I lived in NH for 8 years until 2003, but global warming seems to have effects in NH as well, maybe VT is next. (given the choice of KS or NH I’d still take NH, but Ive still got 2 years left to do here)
http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/
I call attention to Dr. James E. Hansen who today on the National Press Club proposed that the oil companies be sued for deliberately endangering the health of Americans through their deceptive refusal to openly recognize the dangers of global warming. It is reminiscent of how the tobacco executives deliberately misled the public about the dangers of smoking. This is an important development. Unfortunately I feel it is much too late. I hope I am wrong. In any event I am encouuraged by this turn of events.
Hansen, whose credentials are impeccable, like Tim Flannery, has long been a voice for reason. Maybe this latest development will be effective in exposing the deniers like David “I love being right” Springer and Anthony “sunspots” Watts and all the many others who are so congenitally disadvantaged as to be unable to realize that -
Mankind fiddled while earth burned.
http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/SCI_WARMING_SCIENTIST?SITE=CASDT&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
This is MUST READING for all who care about our future. Personally, I do not agree with Hansen’s guarded optimism about returning only to 1988 levels. I believe it is already too late to reverse catastrophe for civilization as we know it. I also sincerely hope that I am wrong.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=88#001317
For the record, my comment, June 26, 4:54.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=88#001320
My comment 5:07, July 1
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=88#001320
My comment 6:42, July 2
David Springer persists in denying anthropogenic global warming.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
Springer is unbelievably stupid.
Olly, whoever that is,
Springer is not stupid. Neither is P.Z. Myers.
Both are totally self absorbed, tyrannical, ruthless manipulators who have only one goal – to eliminate anyone who would dare challenge the world as they each see it. They both use the same methods, ridicule, denigratrion, personal insult and arbitrary banishment of their critics. Myers is by far the better con artist with a huge following of cheering, like minded fans. Springer is more of an intellectual brute, waging what can best be described as a reign of terror. He is an expert on everything – species extinction, a cure for cancer, water as fuel, the virtues of global warming – you name it. In his own words – “I love being right.” He dominates Uncommon Descent with his pompous arrogance. My personal opinion is that Dembski is afraid of him as are several others who comment there.
I have no respect for either Myers or Springer myself.
Einstein described such creatures as follows -
“It is abhorrent to me when a fine intelligence is paired with an unsavory character.”
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080617-sea-change-extinctions_2.html
This report is interesting, especially as there seems little doubt that sea levels will soon be rising rapidly. I don’t see how that can be denied as both poles continue to melt, precipitation increases world wide, and glaciers continue to recede. It is only a matter of time. Those who arbitrarily deny this certainty are fools.
As for the extinction of the dinosaurs, I believe they would have become extinct quite independent of any environmental catastrophes. Their extinction, like that of the giant amphibians that preceeded them, was part of an “Evolutionary Plan” that resulted finally in the present biota, a biota incapable of further evolution. Phylogeny, exactly like ontogeny, has proven to be a self-limiting, self-terminating sequence. Ontogeny terminates with the death of the individual. Phylogeny terminates with total extinction.
In short -
“A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable.”
I realize this is a pessimistic forecast but one which is in perfect accord with what we “really know” for certain about the great mystery of organic evolution.
Those who do not agree are invited to present their evidence. I predict silence.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aiwYTGVQAURk&refer=home
This is an important article which recognizes the reality of climate change and its potential to seriously disrupt our infrastructure.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=89#001332
My comments 5:30, and 6:01, July 8, 08.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000370;p=89
My response to David Springer July 10, 08, 5:54
http://www.iscid.org/boards/ubb-get_topic-f-6-t-000370-p-90.html
Here is another exchange with Springer which I just posted.
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=90#001345
Check this out to see David Springer at his cowardly degenerate best.
It doesn’t get any better than this.
It continues below
http://www.iscid.org/boards/ubb-get_topic-f-6-t-000370-p-90.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=anquivj0ZuhE&refer=home
It isn’t just in the USA that violent weather is taking its toll. The cooling that is taking place in Western Europe may indicate that the Gulf Stream is already slowing.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
To date we have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to slow the increases of atmospheric CO2 that are the primary cause of climate change and global warming. On the contrary they will continue at an ever increasing rate as developing countries demand and acquire automobiles, air conditioning and all the other features of an advanced society and we are sounding our own death knell with the chant “drill, drill, drill.”
What we always needed was a world government with the clout to limit reproduction to one child per family. That is obviously never going to happen. Instead, we will have mass starvation, disease and environmental catastrophes that will make Katrina look like child’s play. These projections are inevitable. The only unknown is time.
“Some… storms are so violent that no human structures can resist them, while the largest and most vigorous trees are torn to pieces or overturned by them. If our atmosphere (received) a somewhat greater amount of heat….these tempests might be so increased in frequency and violence as to render considerable portions of the globe uninhabitable.”
Alfred Russel Wallace, Man’s Place in the Universe, (1905). Quoted by Tim Flannery, The Weather Makers, page 135.
“We have met the enemy and it is us.”
Pogo
Why so many others cannot recognize this looming scenario is beyond me.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/boards/ubb-get_topic-f-6-t-000370-p-91.html
My comment July 21 5:25
David Springer has coughed up another denier of anthropogenic global warming and climate change.
I love it so!
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
I strongly recommend page 46 and 47 in the (current) August 4-11 issue of U.S. News and World Report for a realistic appraisal of what we may expect in the immediate future. It is about time for a major magazine to tell it like it really is!
This issue also includes some real science fiction versions of the origin of life.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
I also recommend this speech by John McCain -
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/News/Speeches/Read.aspx?guid=0b381abd-e573-459d-8716-fbd83ab62d8d
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.usnews.com/articles/science/environment/2008/07/25/an-atlas-of-climate-change.html?msg=1
This is the interactive site for the article I cited in #126. I hope others will comment there as well. You will notice that the deniers have already responded, both anonymous spineless cowards of course. What is really depressing is that when I called attention to the blowhards, they refused to publish it. Anonymity is the greatest deterrent to rational discourse ever conceived. If these trash peddlers had to put their name to their garbage you would never hear from them.
It is hard to believe isn’t it.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
Correction! They DID publish my characterization of the cowardly trash that anonymous commenters invariably prove to be! Don’t take my word for it Checkout the above link.
I love it so!
It doesn’t get any better than this.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
Hi Professor Davison,
Just stopped by to send you a recent conversation about global warming you might be interested in hearing:
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/Creation_Update/archives.asp?bcd=7/22/2008
You may want to try a different audio player if it doesn’t work with the default “Windows Media Player”.
Here it is: http://www.real.com/
TPD, whoever that is.
Thanks but I am not much interested in creation websites. I regard global warming and the climate shifts associated with it as the greatest threat to humanity it has ever faced. I am not alone. I recommend James Lovelock’s “The Revenge of Gaia.” and Martin Rees’ “Our Final Century.”
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/06/opinion/06friedman.html?hp
This is for David Springer and all the others who deny that we have irreversibly altered the physiology of the planet.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=93#001388
Here is another link worth following, this one my response to the other David denier from Uncommon Descent, David L Hagen aka DLH.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=2989.0
Here is Al Gore’s houseboat. Houseboats with their huge flat roofs are naturals for solar power. A few years ago I converted a dismasted 16 foot sailboat to solar power by installing 11 3′x1′ foot solar panels which charged a 12 volt battery powering an electric trolling motor. It made 7 knots which is hull speed (sailboat speed) and could go about 15 miles on a charge. It could recharge rapidly on sunny days which extended its operating range to 30 miles if one took time out for a one hour noon lunch someplace.
If Gore was really serious he would power his houseboat electrically with the newer solar panels which are much more efficient than the ones I was using. The only clean power for all surface transportation is nuclear/electric with charging stations replacing gas stations. We have the technology now but unfortunately it may be too late to implement the changes. Wind machines are vulnerable to tornados and hurricanes and require a lot of maintenance but they may help in the short run. Nuclear/electric is the answer if we can just survive long enough to realize the transformation.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/ams-linking-weather-events-to-climate-change/#more-2352
This is a revealing link from Anthony “sunspots” Watts who continues, like David “I love being right” Spinger, to deny that man has profoundly altered the climate of the earth. There is quite a long list of weather anomalies, many of which Watts fails to mention. Here are three very significant ones I was able to read from the map with the aid of a magnifying glass. These are for 2007.
ARCTIC SEA ICE – All time lowest on record in September. Surpassed previous record set in 2005 by 27%
EURASIAN SNOW COVER – Second lowest extent on record.
NORTH HEMISPHERE SNOW COVER – Third lowest extent on record for April and Spring.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
Approaching 30 inches of rain, the flooding in Florida has been described as “catastrophic” by its Governor. I wonder how the anthropogenic climate deniers like Anthony “sunspots” Watts and David “I love being right” Springer are going to deal with this one. I bet they will pretend it never happened.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/
I recommend this page for those who question global warming. The data for the northern hemisphere correlate very well with the CO2 concentrations recorded at the Mauna Loa station in Hawaii.
I also recommend the following link -
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/
http://www.overwhelmingevidence.com/oe/node/588#comment-2078
Just posted.
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=94#001411
Check this out as Dave/Scot aka David “I love being right” Springer continues to deny anthropogenic global warming and climate change.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://blogs.nature.com/climatefeedback/2008/08/permafrost_study_breaks_ground.html
The lead article here is pretty scary. Be sure to follow the further link to “slow motion time bomb.” Methane is a far more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. Don’t say we didn’t warn you. I hope you are listening David “I love being right” Springer, whose IQ is “north of 150.” Your ego is even further north than that; it is extra-terrestrial.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
I love it so!
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.realclimate.org/
This might be an important source of information on climate change and global warming. However when I attempt to read the additional material by clicking on the MORE button I am denied access. Do others have the same experience? Please let me know.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
The devastation produced by Hurricane Ike, served to remind me of my comment on March 16, 2008. As these violent episodes continue, an increasing fraction of our national wealth will be expended just repairing our infrastructure, in this most recent case several billion dollars worth. Such a suicidal civilization cannot long endure.
Don’t say we alarmists didn’t warn you. Got that David “I love being right” Springer? Got that Anthony “sunspots” Watts? Got that David L. “big oil” Hagen?
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
The devastation of Hurricane Ike was bad enough but to compound the horror we now see the economy is collapsing with the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers. Not only have we destroyed our physical environment but linked to it we now witness the possible collapse of the stock market. This morning I made arrangements to convert a substantial fraction of my assets to cash. I recommend others consider the same response to what I regard as an ominous future for Western Civilization.
After Hurricane Ike, a storm the size of Texas, which is still flooding the middle west I don’t see how anyone can continue to question that we bear the primary responsibility for the destruction of the planet.
Don’t say we didn’t warn you.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
The primary cause of global warming is too many people, especially in the industrialized nations.
This morning I noticed the following question posed on the MSN introductory page -
“Women with breast cancer genes. Should they have their breasts removed?”
My answer is that is entirely up to them. What I would suggest however is that they should not have children of their own but rather, if they must have children, they should adopt the children of couples who do not have a history of congenital diseases. Modern medicine has kept alive many of us, including myself, who would have been eliminated were it not for medical intervention. The result has been an increase of deleterious gene frequency in the populations of the civilized world.
I realize this smacks of eugenics but we should remember that animal and plant breeders have been practicing eugenics for centuries much to our benefit.
I suggest that prior to marriage, medical histories be made freely available to prospective couples so they can at least be aware of the prospects they face both for themselves and their children should they choose, once informed, to have them.
I hope this does not serve to label me as some kind of Hitlerian Fascist but I won’t be surprised if it does!
Just some thoughts.
Any responses?
http://www.uncommondescent.com/science/forget-about-global-warming-again/#comments
I see David “I love being right” Springer is still debunking anthropogenic global warming and reminding everyone that Uncommon Descent, that citadel of certainty, has been doing it for years. As an antidote to his arrogant assertions I recommend James Lovelock’s “The Revenge of Gaia,” Martin Rees’, “Our Final Century” and Tim Flannery’s “The Weather Makers.”
It is also obvious that Spravid Dinger now completely dominates Uncommon Descent which was his goal all along: three threads in a row. As a recently proclaimed atheist, he doesn’t believe a thing that either Reverend Dembski or Denyse O’Leary stand for. Where there is a will there is a way.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
I love it so!
It doesn’t get any better than this.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.uncommondescent.com/legal/phillip-j-berg-and-the-october-surprise/#comments
Excuse me. That is four threads in a row, leaving little doubt as to who rules Uncommon Descent with his iron fist. Spravid Dinger invaded Uncommon Descent with one goal in mind and he has succeeded admirably. I feel sorry for the nominal heads – Dembski and O’Leary, but they have only themselves to blame. They have been bested by an egomaniacal closet atheist.
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=97#001457
My message just presented.
http://www.uncommondescent.com/science/forget-about-global-warming-again/#comments
Note how David “I love being right” Springer abitrarily deletes comments from those who fail to comply with his views. He terminates whole threads at his whim. That is what it means to be an “author” at Uncommon Descent. The “authors” get the pristine white backgrounds, others the gall bladder green.
The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.”
I love it so!
http://www.uncommondescent.com/science/forget-about-global-warming-again-me-too/#comments
David “I love being right” Springer is once again denying global warming, this time calling it “a bunch of crap.” Isn’t he precious?
Never fear, Springer’s here!
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
I’ll stick with James Lovelock, father of the Gaia hypothesis, Martin Rees, astronomer and author of “Our Final Century,” and currently President of the Royal Society and Tim Flannery, recently voted “Australia’s Man of the Year” and author of “The Weather Makers” myself. You will find all three on my list of important books on the side bar.
I love it so!
It doesn’t get any better than this.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.uncommondescent.com/science/forget-about-global-warming-again-me-too/#comments
The downturn on the right side of the graph is the most disgraceful violation of reality if have ever witnessed. I don’t know who was responsible for it but whoever it was is a global warming denier. That is for sure. For David “I love being right” Springer to let it stand without comment is understandable as he has already described global warming a “bunch of crap.”
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=99#001477
Just posted.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/dn15085-humans-to-blame-for-polar-warming.html?feedId=online-news_rss20
One of Springer’s many victims had the temerity to introduce the above thread. I wonder how the biggest bully in cyberdumb will deal with it. He will probably banish the poor soul.
Hey John & Martin,
I been putting some thumbtacks in the booties of evolutionist die hards. Three hard core UK evolutionist have now been convinced that you have torn apart their faith in evolution. I directed several dozen to your site all in hope they would at least give a critique they have not written back and some have actually asked for your blog which I have given to them. One claimed Meyers and Dawkins would meet your challenge but to this day I do not see either respond to you. I tip my hat to you John, you beat them at their own game. I also have witnessed our friend Martin totally dismantle several of Meyers foot soldiers. I really hope they feel the sting John.
Thank you Dublin but it doesn’t work that way.
First of all I remain a convinced evolutionist. It is only the mechanism that has ever been in question and the Darwinian fairy tale never played any role in the process. Natural selection, the sine qua non of the whole ill fated scheme, is now and always has been anti-evolutionary, serving only to delay creative evolution for as long as possible.
Atheists are born, not made. It is pride, one of the seven deadly sins, that keeps the Darwinian myth alive. It is the same character defect that blinds David “I love being right” Springer from accepting the obvious reality that man and man alone is responsible for the demise of his environment and his own impending extinction.
Once someone has firmly dedicated his life and reputation to a dogmatic position he has surrendered his soul in the process. He can no longer seek the truth. Now all he can do is lash out at all those who still can. That is exactly what we see in figures like Myers, Dawkins, Hitchens, Elsberry and Springer. Unable to say “I was wrong,” they are committing ethical, moral and intellectual suicide. Unfortunately that is the way it is, the way it was “prescribed” to be. History is littered with such poor lost souls, shackled from the moment of conception, doomed to be losers. That is no longer a matter for conjecture as it has been firmly established with studies on separated identical twins reared in drastically different environments.
I repeat my conviction that one of the most significant books of recent times is William Wright’s “Born That Way” which fully supports Einstein’s lifelong conviction that “Everything is determined…by forces over which we have no control,” a mantra with which I fully agree and which remains in perfect accord with everything we have learned and continue to learn about the two closely related mysteries of ontogeny and phylogeny.
“Neither in the one nor in the other is there room for chance.”
Leo Berg, Nomogenesis, page 134.
“Evolution is in a great measure an unfolding of pre-existing rudiments.”
page 406.
“A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable.”
http://www.iscid.org/boards/ubb-get_topic-f-6-t-000370-p-99.html
Just to keep things up to date.
http://blogs.nature.com/climatefeedback/2008/10/yet_another_greenhouse_gas.html
Here is another greenhouse gas, Nitrogen triflouride, estimated to be 12,000 times more potent than CO2 and increasing 11 perecnt per year.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=aF0joSBcUfDA&refer=home
Here is another potential horror story to add to the global warming forecast. Is there any good news for our future? Apparently not.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=a61C3MoVAAMA&refer=science
A reasonable article dealing with global warming. James Hansen and Tim Flannery will turn out to be the real champions of the global warming debate.
“Manknd fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=102#001532
As you can see from the above page, David Springer has once again made a brief appearance, and I have responded.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
I hope others, especially David “I love being right” Springer, have been watching the History Channel’s excellent presentation on global warming and climate change. How anyone can still assume that we are not responsible for what is happening to our planet is beyond my comprehension.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/boards/ubb-get_topic-f-6-t-000370-p-103.html
just posted
Note that David “I love being right” Springer has resurfaced at “brainstorms,” this time to call me a “dummy” because I believe that anthropogenic global warming and climate change pose a serious threat to our survival. He sites a “minority report” which is little more than a litany of opinions to justify his position and his words.
Incidentally, Springer admits to being a sociopath, as if that was necessary.
Poor David Springer’s real problem is Arrington will not let him pontificate about the “AGW HOAX” any longer at Uncommon Descent, probably because Arrington, like most rational beings, is now convinced of its reality. So poor disenfranchised Springer has to find other blogs in order to vent his unshakable convictions. He “loves being right” you know.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
Not any longer it isn’t!
I love it so!
P.S. You are always welcome here Dave (provided you can remain civil).
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000370&p=103#001546
Just posted. Note that DaveScot / David Springer has decided to harangue me once again and I have responded to the biggest bully in all of cyberdumb.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
I love it so!
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.iscid.org/boards/ubb-get_topic-f-6-t-000370-p-103.html
Springer popped up again and I have responded. He refuses to answer my questions.
http://www.uncommondescent.com/humor/holiday-humor/#respond
I see David Springer is back lampooning AGW. I thought Arrington had declared that subject off limits at Uncommon Descent. Springer used the same idiotic Utube at “brainstorms” forum as I documented yesterday above. He “loves being right” you know and he will never let anyone forget it.
I love it so!
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
It is maddening for me to be unable to counter the comments at Uncommon Descent. Springer has everyone else terrified to take exception with anything he says.
The earth has always undergone huge changes in climate, average temperature, sea level and atmospheric composition. That is true enough. It is the RATE OF CHANGE that distinguishes the present from the past.
Never in the history of the planet has the rate of change been anywhere near as great as it is right now except for catastrophic events like violent volcanic explosions and giant meteor impacts both of which had dramatic effects including mass extinctions. Tim Flannery presents evidence that the rate of change is 30 times greater than in the past. In other words a thousand years of change is being compressed into 33 years. I believe that may be an underestimate of the threat that we face.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
I stick to my guns that global warming and its attendant climate change is a serious threat to our survival. As a matter of fact I don’t think there is anything we can now do to avert catastrophe.
I hate being right.
http://www.uncommondescent.com/humor/holiday-humor/#comments
Here is Springer’s appaisal of CO2 -
“CO2 can basically be thought of as plant food and pretty much ignored otherwise.”
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
And notice that no one dares take exception with “the one.” He “loves being right” you know.
http://www.uncommondescent.com/science/cult-science/#comments
So now global warming is “cult science?” So says David “I love being right” Springer. That takes care of that folks. “The one” has spoken. Be sure to check #7 where Springer complains about skeptics being ostracized, that coming one who has banished more poor souls than any other figure in the history of internet communication.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
I love it so!
For a different take from the “professionals” I recommend -
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/01/cnn-is-spun-right-round-baby-right-round/#more-640
and this on the retreat of the glaciers -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7770472.stm
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=advYAobrbTL0&refer=home
The Japanese are getting into the CO2 monitoring game big time. It will be interesting to see what they come up with. One thing is obvious. They are taking the issue seriously which is more than I can say for David Springer.
What Springer and the other AGW deniers don’t understand is that it is the MELTING of polar and continental ice and the retreat of the glaciers that is the CAUSE of cold weather. Every gram of ice at 0 deg C. that is converted to water at 0 deg C. absorbs 80 calories in the process. That heat comes from the atmosphere, resulting in a lowering of its temperature. It is not just the latent heat of freezing that is involved. The latent heat of evaporation, 540 cal/gram also sucks heat from the atmosphere. Sublimation is also involved which combines the latent heat of freezing and the latent heat of vaporization (540 cal/gram + 80 cal/gram or 620 cal/gram). Sooner or later, and we don’t know exactly when, the “tipping point” will be reached. The rate of melting will slow sufficiently for a net warming to rather suddenly begin. Sea levels will most certainly also begin rapidly to rise. It is all nothing but the basic physical chemistry of water. There is only one unkown – when. Trust me but of course you won’t. That suits me just fine!
I hate being right.
Like HELL I do!
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=a88Ja2tPfcnM&refer=home
More hard evidence for global warming.
http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/hansens-former-boss-at-nasa-declares-himself-an-agw-skeptic/#comments
I see David “I love being right” Springer is still denying AGW, this time citing the content of emails to support his intractable, congenital position.
I predict Springer will now go after Al Gore. While I am not a fan of the political Al Gore, he is right on about the climate crisis. He always was.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
Unfortunately, it is too late to reverse the damage we have done to our enviroment.
John,
Red tide is killing the ocean on the west coast, in venture I was walking on the beach found 15 dead birds washed up, a half dead seal and a dolphin. At this rate west coast marine life will be nothing but dead ocean.
by the way I had only walked less than 90 feet.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=ajCBthQzAiU4&refer=home
Here is some more bad news for David “I love being right” Springer and all the rest of the AGW deniers. Such creatures will be, as I predicted some time ago, scarce as hen’s teeth by the end of this decade. Why they still exist is beyond me!
I hate being right.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/01/a-global-glacier-index-update/#more-648
I was finally successful in leaving a message at “Real Climate” which I regard as a very credible forum. It is a cut above “Watts Up With That?” from which I was promptly banished after a single message.
http://ecoworldly.com/2009/02/04/tibetan-glaciers-shrinking-faster-than-expected/#more-2261
and
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/02/antarctic-warming-is-robust/#more-651
Here is some more bad news for David “I love being right” Springer and all the other AGW deniers to ignore.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
I hate being right.
http://theautopsy.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/incredible-ap-finds-way-to-blame-aussie-fires-on-climate-change/#comment-1916
My comment, posted February 15, 6:08 AM, 09, is my explanation for how one can have cold weather during a period when glaciers recede and polar ice melts. I wish someone would put me out of my misery if my interpretation is without foundation. So far no one has.
Since David “I love being right” Springer still denies anthropogenic global warming (AGW), perhaps he would like to explain how my explanation is without foundation.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
P.S. On February 16, 5:30 PM, 09 I re-introduced my hypothesis that it is the MELTING of global ice that is CAUSING global cooling, illustrated with a simple experiment one can do at home. So far I have been unable to evoke any response to this explanation. It will be interesting to see if any response is forthcoming there or anywhere else. I predict it will be ignored, just as has been my PEH and my contention that evolution is finished.
That suits me just fine!
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=a3q1UXPWvNnA&refer=home
Here is some more for David “I love being right” Springer and the rest of the AGW deniers to ignore.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
John A. Davison
http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-topic/oopsie-daisy-nsidc-misplaces-500000-sq-kilometers-of-arctic-ice/#comments
What is most remarkable about this post is the way Springer ignores the opening statement of the source he cites -
“According to scientific measurements, Arctic sea ice has declined dramatically over at least the past thirty years, with the most extreme decline seen in the summer melt season.
Notice that David “I love being right” Springer still insists that AGW is a myth. I especially love his “repeat after me – CO2 is plant food, CO2 is plant food, CO2 is plant food.”
Of course CO2 is plant food David. Why don’t you cite a single instance in which it can be shown to be a limiting factor in a natural situation. If it were a limiting factor, why would its atmospheric concentration keep steadily increasing? It is hard to demonstrate as a limiting factor even under laboratory conditions. CO2 is also a poison David. It is acidifying the oceans David. It is destroying coral reefs David. Arctic ocean salinity is declining as well. I recommend you lecture the professional climatologists at Real Climate. You won’t of course. You are completely preoccupied with terrorizing any dissenters left at Uncommon Descent. Only bullies have to keep repeating themselves.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
Not any longer it isn’t.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
P.S. What is pathetic is how Granville Sewell is encouraging him. I wonder why. (comment #2)
I suspect Springer’s credibility at Uncommon Descent is not what it once was. He has only two responses to this most recent eruption. He really should consider having his own weblog as he, with P. Z. Myers, Richard Dawkins, and others have forced me to do. Then he might have no responses at all!
P.P.S. It isn’t the area of ice that is important David. It is the volume, which is the reason for the direct measurements being planned as I reported in an earlier message. I also have problems taking seriously the graph you have presented. I can’t imagine real variations being any where near what is indicated. Ice and water have very large specific heats which would tend to smooth out sequential trends. I suspect the graph you have presented is far from accurate. Where did you find it or would you rather not say? Is it your own work?
I love it so!
P.P.S #2
Springer knows the cause of climate change and global warming and cooling cycles. Of course he has known it all along. It is variations in the strength of the solar electromagnetic field. Accordingly, he concludes in post # 5 -
“Obviously nothing humanity is doing now, as in the past, or in the future is going to influence the strength of the solar electromagnetic field.”
How is that for circular reasoning?
It doesn’t get any better than this.
I love it so!
I have just extensively edited #182.
So come on all you “experts,” you pompous “know it alls” who don’t even agree with one another: show me where I am wrong. I am not planning on going away on this matter any more than I am on my conviction that evolution is finished or that chance never had anything whatsoever to do with it.
SOCKITOME if you have the guts that is! Whatever you do, don’t use your real names you cowardly wimps! Only real human beings do that! I am disgusted with the damn nightmare that the internet has become. The ball is in the court of the cowardly, mostly anonymous, unfulfilled blowhards.
It doesn’t get any better than this.
I love it so!
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=a8dqj132T.kg&refer=home
The debate continues.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=aA9C2Mg1eLtU&refer=home
Here is some more reality for David “I love being right” Springer and the rest of the AGW skeptics to ignore.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
Not any longer it isn’t.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
Hey Springer, since you “love being right,” how do you feel about being dead wrong? Do you love that too?
I love it so!
It is interesting to examine the parallels that exist within the global warming community and the equally polarized differences between the Creationists and the atheist Darwinians.
There are two major “forums,” and I use that term very loosely, dealing with the global warming issue. One, “Watts Up With That,” consists of those who question AGW, led by Anthony Watts and his loyal band of followers. On the other hand we have “Real Climate,” those who accept AGW and are influenced by James Hansen with whom I largely agree. I was banished from Watt’s Up With That? long ago which should surprise no one.
As you know I have suggested that the delay in global warming is the result of the large energy absorption from the atmosphere required for the melting of polar and continental ice. It is not just the 80 calories/gram required to melt the ice but the 540 calories/gram required to vaporize the water. When ice sublimates directly into the atmosphere the sum of these two is absorbed from the surface of the earth or its atmophere, a whopping 620 calories/gram.
Naturally I expected a “warm” reception when I suggested this hypothesis at “Real Climate.” Nothing could be further from the truth. I was treated like an ignorant sophomore by Ray Ladbury and others at Real Climate. I was attacked and only rarely was allowed to respond. Now I see that gavin, whoever that is, is closing the thread down so that no more comments can appear following a further denigration of me by Alan of Oz, who also showed up here with his insults. That is why he was not heard. Apparently the “experts” at Real Climate don’t understand the principles that determine what we call “chill factor.” It is the vaporization of water from the surface of our skin that lowers its temperature.
There are other similarities between “Real Climate” and “Watts Up With That?” They each have their chosen leader, Roy Spencer at “Watts Up With That?” and James Hansen at “Real Climate.” Each has its rabid followers.
One thing I achieved however at Real Climate. I managed to get Ray Ladbury and others there to treat me with contempt. That was my expected purpose all along. I have yet to present an hypothesis that was proven to be without merit and I don’t intend to start doing so now.
I say without reservation that history will prove I was right, and both the opposing camps were wrong. So it was with the Creationist/Darwinian “debate” and so will it prove to be with respect to my hypothesis explaining the transient delay in global warming.
I have invited all to come here to present their views in civil exchange and I am not in the least surprised that nobody shows. I would especially like to hear from James Hansen and Roy Spencer, the real powers behind the scene for this idiotic and revealing “debate.”
There has never been any place for “debate” in science and there never will be.
I rest my case.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
Not at all. It is what I have learned to expect.
I love it so!
Edit added March 20, 5:30 AM
gavin did not close the thread which continues, denying me any response to derogation by Alan of Oz, another cowardly alias. This is the same Alan of Oz who showed up here, under another alias to further insult me.
If you come back, Alan of Oz, I will be happy to allow your comments to stand for as long as this weblog lasts. Don’t disappoint me.
http://www.innovations-report.com/html/reports/earth_sciences/report-56556.html
This source addresses the results of the increase in world wide precipitation and will serve as a background for what I now offer.
We should remember that the other product of the oxidation of hydrocarbons is water which enters the atmosphere as vapor and is visible as clouds. Like CO2, H2O is a powerful greenhouse gas. One of the questions that has intrigued me is why hasn’t sea level risen more than it has as polar and glacier ice continue to diminish?
I offer the following explanation which I make no claim as being original.
There is another sink for the excess water other than the sea. It is the terrestrial environment which may be likened to a giant sponge. A porous terrestrial earth, with its wonderful undergound fresh water aquifers, is acting as a sink for a rising salt water sea. This is especially evident in low lying coastal areas like the Everglades, the Netherlands and Bangladesh where salt water is invading and rendering the adjacent terrestrial land unsuitable for conventional agriculture and poisoning the sources of potable water. In Bangladesh where rice has been the major subsistence crop for millions, farmers have been forced to abandon rice culture in favor of shrimp farming or the farmng of other euryhaline (salt tolerant) organisms like eels. Eels are delicious, especially broiled which releases much of the substantial oil which could theoretically serve as yet another renewable biofuel. Of course smoked eel is another delicacy which has the virtue of not requiring refrigeration.
And so I would especially recommend the culture of eels, as was practiced by primitive Homo sapiens long before the Industrial Revolution which launched this environmental crisis.
As the sea encroaches a porous earth more and more of the terrestrial environment will become unsuitable for conventional agriculture. We may end up eating sea weed as our major source of nutrition! I intend to try some soon. We also may be forced to return to the old practice of preservation of our food with the salt that is poisoning the present agriculture economy.
What I find most remarkable is that there still exist a large fraction of a presumably rational scientific community that stiill question Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW). How this can be boggles my ancient mnd.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
Pardon my pessimism and please remember that -
“I hate being right.”
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=92557
Apparently WND has decided that global warming is no longer occurring based largely on the conclusions of Roy Spencer. I am unimpressed.
Quite some time ago I predicted that AGW deniers would be scarce as hen’s teeth by the end of this decade. I stick to that prediction.
“Mankind continues to fiddle while earth burns.”
http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090323/full/news.2009.183.html
Here is some new evidence for global warming for David Springer and the rest of the AGW skeptics to ignore.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/category/climate-science/arctic-and-antarctic/langswitch_lang/zh
Here is more proof for global warming for David Springer and the rest of the deniers to pretend does not exist.
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
I see that virtually all the pundits in the media are now ridiculing the “global warming scare” just because it snowed in New York City yesterday.
“Men believe most what they least understand.”
Montaigne
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
John A. Davison
http://www.earlyspringthebook.com/
Here is another very interesting develoment for David Springer and the rest of the AGW deniers to ignore.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
John A. Davison
A book written by some airheaded blonde enviromentalist whacko chick? Spare me.
Here’s one for you. NASA suggests that Arctic sea ice melt is largely driven by manmade aerosols (sulfates and black soot) not by carbon dioxide.
NASA GISS suggests aerosols play a large role in Arctic warming
If you’ll recall I indicted black soot two years ago in a series of articles on Uncommon Descent. Maybe NASA should just hire me to do their research for them. My findings won’t necessarily be politically correct but they will be factually correct.
Dave, thanks for showing up.
I take it then that you deny any role for increasing CO2 in global warming? Do I have that right?
I am not surprised that you would dispose of an author without ever reading that author’s book. You are precious David Springer. I have noticied the same thing she has written about. Spring IS coming earlier whether you like it or not and I believe increases in CO2 are the primary reason. Isn’t black soot anthropogenic? Isn’t methane? Aren’t all those aerosols we keep putting up in the atmosphere anthropogenic too?. Isn’t all of global warming strictly anthropogenic? What ever happened to your solar emissivity and your sunspots? Did you give up on that?
It is hard to believe isn’t it?
Not at all. It is vintage “I love being right” David Springer.
I love it so!
Dave,
Your knee jerk characteriztion of Amy Seidl as an “airheaded blond environmentalist whacko chick” gives me concern as to your mental health. I realize that you are a self described sociopath but comments like that border on psychosis. I hope she never finds out how you feel about her especially since you apparently have never read her book. Statements like that could plunge you into a law suit. That wouldn’t be much fun or would it? I’ll get the book when the price comes down at which time I will present an objective review of it from here. Her book has already received several very favorable reviews available at the link I provided. Did you read any of those? Probably not.
Of course you could retract your statement too.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
I see that is not going to happen. Have you ever apologized for anything or even felt the need to?
Edited April 14, 09, 4:00 PM
http://www.gizmag.com/solar-powered-recharging-station/11499/
Here is a sensible alternative to hydrocabon based transportation. In theory it would eliminate ttansmision of electricity from places remote from the “filling station.” I like it very much.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/3659606/the-modern-heresy-of-true-science.thtml
I have introduced my ideas on global warming on June 11, 2009.
It will be interesting if they produce any reactions.
So far there has been no response at the above Spectator thread.
I welcome any responses to my essay, especially from DaveScot (David Springer) who I happen to know has a different interpretation of the global warming issue.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=afmw1nT6inhA
This is for the global warming skeptics, each new forecast more dismal than its predecessor. I predicted long ago that by the end of this decade global warming skeptics would be scarce as hen’s teeth. That such poor souls still dominate our culture is a scandal unprecedented in the history of human communication.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://climateprogress.org/2009/06/23/james-hansen-top-us-climate-scientists-arrested-protest-on-mountaintop-removal/
James Hansen has been telling it like it really is for years. Those who deny AGW are irresponsible and dangerous.
eric1skeptic.
Unfortunately, I do not approve comments from anonymous sources. I also don’t care for your tone. Sorry about the rest of your comments but they will not appear and this one will soon be deleted. Rules are rules and you obviously are not interested in being open about your identity. I also don’t find your math convincing.
Eric D. Peterson, engineer, aka eric1skeptic
I have deleted your additional messages and will continue to do so until you introduce your statements with your real name which I take it is Eric D. Peterson. Surely, if you are confident of your position you will have no qualms about that would you? I see you are already backing off on some on your prior assertions. Why don’t you begin by responding to my question about Tim Flannery? If you haven’t read his book say so.
The insistence on anonymity indicates a basic lack of confidence. I am not certain about my alarmist position but that is no reason not to hold it. As I have said many times.
“I hate being right.”
Sorry to be so hard nosed, but rules are rules and this is not a fan club like so many weblogs are.
The ball is now in the court of Eric D. Peterson, engineer.
I had a few problems, including the username “ericdpeterson” being taken. But I was able to to use my work email to sign up for a new username “petersonericd”.
I have not yet bought or read Flannery’s book other than what you have quoted above. But he has one glaring problem that I see already. The claim that oxidation of fuel also creates water vapor is true. However is not true that the extra water vapor has any effect on warming. This is because natural water vapor from the water cycle is many orders of magnitude larger than the water vapor produced by man.
The accepted theory of CO2 warming is that it warms the earth a bit so that water vapor is increased by that warming. The amount of water vapor feedback is a matter of hot debate. In other words, although the warming is not natural, the increase in water vapor is essentially 100% natural. Any other theory, such as the one by Flannery that you quote, is not accepted by the scientific community on any side of this issue.
Your own theory of melting ice absorbing energy and delaying the CO2 warming has a similar flaw. The natural flows of energy from incoming sunshine and outgoing LW are many orders of magnitude higher than the energy absorbed by the melting of the glaciers and ice caps. I am not at all denying that glaciers and ice caps are melting. The highest estimate for that rate that I can find is 20 Gt net loss for all glaciers and the polar ice caps each year.
The bottom line is that the energy absorbed by melting ice is about 4-5 orders of magnitude smaller than the energy in the sunlight hitting the earth, warming it and released in long wave form. Therefore the melting ice has a negligible impact compared to the greenhouse effect and its variations.
Thank you Eric Peterson.
I don’t believe Flannery ever considered water vapor a problem. The primary culprits are CO2 and methane. That is why the thawing of the permafrost can have a devastating effect. Nevertheless, world wide precipitation is definitely increasing and with it more swamps, more methane etc etc.
Are you suggesting that the presence of the frozen poles and continental glaciers play a negligible role in regulating the climate of the earth? I regard them as powerful buffers against rampant heating. I hope you realize that as they melt sea level will rise. It has already begun.
Your calculations will not by themselves convince me of anything. Firstly, we do not know the total mass of frozen water. Secondly, the conversion of ice to water vapor (sublimation) requires a whopping 620 calories per gram. Pardon me if I use the archaic heat constants. I feel they have more intuitive significance at least for me and those of my vintage.
The earth is a fragile system, easily disturbed. The last 10,000 years have been abnormally warm possibly due to the agricultural activities of man through the use of swamps for rice and eel culture. The Milankovich cycles cannot account for this extended warm period. The real problem is the last couple of centuries when the balance of nature has been profoundly upset by the Industrial Revolution. It is ironic that the devastation due to the Industrial Revolution is what made the Age of Technology possible and which continues to sustain it.
I regard this as suicidal in the long run. What is really disturbing is how this matter has been politicized. I am a staunch Constitutional Conservative, but that does not mean that I am going to join my fellow Conservatives who deny global warming for purely ideological reasons. I am very concerned about the posture and influence of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and many other Conservatives on a subject about which they know virtually nothing. These people have far reaching influence and they should be more cautious with their pronouncements.
Let me repeat that “I hate being right” and pray that I am wrong.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/3659606/the-modern-heresy-of-true-science.thtml
As one can see, I am currently involved in the global warming “debate” at Spectator.co.uk
http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/3659606/the-modern-heresy-of-true-science.thtml#comments
Note that the discussion between Eric D. Peterson and myself continues at Spectator.co.uk
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327151.300-sea-level-rise-its-worse-than-we-thought.html?full=true
Here is an important summary of the current thinking on sea level rise. I am inclined to think it is too conservative, but that is just my chronic pessimism showing.
Can I no longer post here? I got back a screen that said “discarded”.
Sorry about the previous post, the filter must have discarded it. Not sure what is tripping the filter. I will rewrite it again now.
The article referenced in 209 uses out of date or misleading information to reach an alarmist conclusion. For example the article states that the J glacier has sped up from 6 km/year in 1997 to 13 km/year in 2003. But it does not mention that the glacier has since slowed to the 1997 rate (see wikipedia article on the J glacier). All of Greenland’s glaciers have slowed (see recent articles by Tavi Murray).
There is a lot of uncertainty and I will point out some in a link in my next post (that may be triggering the filter).
The filter doesn’t like the link from Science magazine that I kept trying to post. For those who want it, type “1138478v1″ into Google and choose the first link. It should be to the article in Science. In a series of linked PDF’s below the article they talk about the uncertainties with the ice sheets. John’s catastrophic scenario may occur, or it may not.
Eric
I have no idea why your posts were blocked. You are getting through now.
Slowing is not the same as no longer occurring. The simple fact is that both poles are melting and glaciers are all retreating world wide. I see no uncertainties about those facts. Apparently you reject these realities as lacking significance. I do not. Are any glaciers advancing?
I do not trust Wikipedia as a source. We don’t even know who wrote their entries or what their motives are. Wikipedia is still pro Darwinian for example and definitely anti-alarmist. “They,” whoever “they” are, are especially critical of Tim Flannery. There is altogether too much politics involved in this very important matter. Facts are facts and should not be denied. It is the “rate of change” that concerns me just as it does Flannery. The sad part is that we aren’t doing anything to alter what is happening. I don’t believe we can.
At least you seem to be keeping an open mind which is more than I can say for some.
Some time ago I predicted that AGW deniers would be scarce as hen’s teeth by the end of this decade. That seems still to be the case.
Thanks for the comments.
http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publications/warming_earth/scientific_evidence.htm
The above summarizes the evidence for both global warming and its anthropogenic causes.
How anyone can still deny this reality is beyond my comprehension.
Hi John,
Their first chart splices instrument measurements (from the atmosphere) into ice cores estimates, those are not at all the same thing. The instrument measurements are exact. The ice core measurements contain heavily smoothed, inexact measurements. As you might suspect they draw all the gas from the melted sample and radioactively date the gas. The dating is imprecise mainly because the CO2 embedded in any slice (old or modern, does not matter) comes from thousands of years on either side of the center date.
For example ice that is 4050 years old (relatively precisely dated using water isotopes) contains CO2 that is an average of 1700 years old, but varies from zero years old to about 4000 years old, perhaps a bit older. This is because the gas travels in the ice. The distribution is tilted towards the modern gas in newer ice, but is more uniform in older ice.
Some data can be seen here: ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/icecore/antarctica/vostok/co2.txt Also note in the file that the peak 120k years ago was 290ppm and was only measured about every 2000 years or so. Splicing smoothed and inaccurate measurements taken at 2000 year intervals with the yearly averages from the accurate modern instruments is scientifically unjustifiable.
As a result of the smoothing the measurements from the last peak which they claim are no more than “299″ ppm (with falsely implied accuracy) could have been much higher and comparable to today’s peak. The only way to show that they were not is not is to rule out all century-scale possibilities for natural CO2 fluctuations such as deep ocean warming or biosphere changes. That may be done somewhere in this field but it is not mentioned in the text, and they don’t acknowledge the possibility and don’t even seem aware of it at all.
In the following three figurers (model versus observations) they end the graph at 1999, one year after the 1998 very strong El Nino. Since then the models and observations have diverged. The models, containing no solar influences such as GCR flux (currently at an all time high, see for example http://neutronm.bartol.udel.edu/realtime/thule.html) which directly influence weather and thus climate.
The following chart, global average temperature versus CO2 contains two errors. First the one I explained above with smoothed ice cores and spliced instrument measurements. It is completely false to say that a, for example, 100 year old ice core shows about 295 ppm. That 100 year old ice contains as much modern CO2 as it does 100 year old CO2.
The second error is the use of GISS for global average temperature. A better measurement for global average temperature comes from satellites (appropriately adjusted for drift and discontinuities). Those would show a leveling of temperatures since about 2002 while CO2 increased as shown accurately in the figure.
A footnote to my previous post: the realclimate post http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2009/07/warminginterrupted-much-ado-about-natural-variability/ has a nice explanation of why the Woods Hole figures that match the model to the temperature record have no predictive value. They are merely an exercise in fitting curves to historical data. By ending their charts in 1999 during the aftermath of the super El Nino, their models lack any current relevance.
Thank you Eric,
I have no intention of pursuing this matter further with you as I am not an expert in such matters. However, I have respect for the sources I have provided. So rather than continue on what will probably not be a productive exchange, I am going to ask you a question. Incidentally, I am persona non grata at “Real Climate” and was dispensed with with “do the math.” I have also been banished from Watt’s Up with that?
Do you believe that man is now having and has had a significant affect on the temperature and climate of the earth? I feel that can be answered with a yes or a no.
First, let me tell you what I believe.
I believe that man is the primary and possibly the sole cause of the carefully measured changes in CO2, world wide precipitation, ocean pH and salinity change, the retreat of glaciers, increase in sea level, increase of violent storms and the melting of both poles.
You seem to discount every aspect of the sources I have provided.
Now what do you believe?
Hi John,
No, I would not call it a “significant” effect.
It is clear that man is the primary cause of the recent increase in CO2, but I do not believe the current level of CO2 is unusual or unprecedented in previous interglacial periods. The man-caused rise in CO2 has contributed slightly to warming (a tenth or two tenths of a degree C) and some warming beyond that can also be attributed to man because of water vapor positive feedback. Perhaps 0.5 degrees total.
But natural variability seems to outweigh that rise. Temperate and tropical glaciers have been melting since the late 1800’s which I attribute to natural variability in climate. Glaciers in Greenland have slowed greatly since 2005 which I attribute to natural variability in weather (clouds, arctic ocean currents, etc).
It is possible, as suggested in the link I posted, that natural variability is masking AGW. But it is also possible that AGW has reached a natural limit in water vapor positive feedback (i.e. weather). In either case, I cannot honestly call man’s influence on climate to be “significant”. Ask me again in 10 years, we may have clearer trend data by then. Thanks for letting me contribute to your blog.
Thank you Eric for your candor. At eighty-one, it is not likely that I will be asking you anything in ten years.
Let me respond to your -
“glaciers have been melting since the late 1800’s.”
The late 1800’s marks the period when the Industrial Revolution began to reach its full swing which I with others blame for the whole phenomenon of global warming and climate change.
I am also troubled by your use of the term “natural variability.” Where there is variability there is a cause and that cause should be identified.
Let me add – I hope you are right because I hate being right.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/16/a-letter-on-ocean-acidification/#comments
I have presented a comment here as well – #28
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/intersection/2009/07/18/unscientific-america-on-nprs-living-on-earth/#comments
and here.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=a6EvbLkU1w6w
Global warming may be greater than was first estimated.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=aEGcNnT1qzuw
More factual material for the AGW deniers to ignore.
I have read an interesting opinion by a Czech leftist and philosopher Vaclav Belohradsky: secularists believe in a new idol – increase of GDP. He wonders how long it takes until this faith in “development” wakes up people from their lethargy -or our planet suffocates. Marxists or capitalists – all the same. Increase of GDP is the only thing both groups care about.
Thank you Martin.
I believe both factions are responsible for the devastation of our environment and are equally responsible for our ultimate extinction. We waited too long to come to our senses.
http://www.gizmag.com/four-crucial-resources-running-out/12630/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=b007d689dd-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email
Here is an important summary from one of my favorite sources, Gizmag.
Like my own perspective, it is pessimistic and offers no solutions.
I hate being right.
My post to the Guardian 11:10 pm:
“It has been mentioned already – but I also do not see a reason for confusing the climate change with creationism. For instance professor John Davison (author of Prescribed evolutionary hypothesis) is waging war against climate change deniers. Needless to say that he is no way a darwinist.”
on
“This professor of denial can’t even answer his own questions on climate change” by George Monbiot
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cif-green/2009/sep/14/climate-change-denial?commentpage=5&commentposted=1
Thank you Martin. I registered at guardian.co.uk
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cif-green/2009/sep/14/climate-change-denial?showallcomments=true&commentpage=7&commentposted=1
I just sent a message to guardian.co.uk in response to guthriestewart’s harangue against me.
Enjoy!
US-NATO Using Military Might To Control World Energy Resources http://wp.me/p4271-1p0 but the pollution they leave in their wake is killing the planet and life on it.
Eliminating war might be better then removing the people. Birth control wold be the way to cut down on the population.
Rainbow Warrior, whoever that is and I suspect we will never know.
Thank you for the valuable link.
I still think we should get out of Afganistan. We are destroying the planet and ourselves by acting as the world’s policeman. It is not sustainable as your source indicates. It seems inevitable to me that disease will play a major role in reducing the world population. Homo sapiens obviously is not competent to regulate either his own numbers or the toxic products necessarily associated with his advanced society. Like nearly all species that preceeded us, we too are probably doomed to extinction.
I hate being right.
I hate being right too. Just once I wish that they would prove me wrong but for some odd reason, when I have a feeling about something, I am usually always right.
We should get out of Afghanistan and Iraq. Both wars a bogus and were from the start.
They are killing the planet. They are spending trillions on war if that money were used to harness things like Geothermal, solar and wind energy it would be much better. There safer and cleaner ways to do things. Seems out leaders are too stupid or taking too many bribes to care. War Pollution must be put on the Climate Change agenda.
Take care and drop by anytime.
Your Friendly neighborhood Rainbow.
Iraq was not bogus. Bush established a working democracy in the heart of Islam. If that persists, he will be remembered as one of our greatest presidents. Democracy will never succeed in Afghanistan. It is the most corrupt and useless piece of real estate on the planet.
Geothermal, wind and solar are a drop in the bucket and will never solve the energy crisis. There is now and always was only one solution. It was nuclear/electric, the only non polluting means conceivable until fusion becomes feasible. I believe it is now too late to avert catastrophe.
Since you are unable to identify yourself, I may delete any further comments. Read my policy statement on my Welcome thread. I am sick of dealing with anonymous sources. Anonymity is cowardice.
http://www.gizmag.com/biofuel-from-trash-reduces-global-emissions/12982/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=481e58d59a-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email
This is interesting but even if implemented will, in my opnion, be too little too late.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.gizmag.com/improved-redox-flow-batteries-evs/13102/?utm_source=Gizmag+Subscribers&utm_campaign=6b827d3aa2-UA-2235360-4&utm_medium=email
Here is another fascinating development for electricity as a substitute for hydrocarbon fuels.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/double-food-output-to-stop-world-starving-say-scientists-1806260.html
I just now introduced a message on the above link.
It remains a terminal message as of October 22 6:00 AM EST.
I have changed my mind as to the primary causes of global warming and have erased my essay on that subject. The melting of polar ice and the retreat of the glaciers are only symptoms of an underlying anthropogenic mechanism which, I believe now, is primarily a change in the overall whiteness (albedo) of the earth. The disappearance of polar and continental (glacier) ice further reduce the reflectivity of the earth, but are insufficient in themselves to account for global warming.
The primary, underlying cause must reside in the activities of civilized society which continue to involve an increase in the greenhouse gases, H2O, CO2, CH4 and a host of other man made organic molecules which continue to accumulate in the atmosphere. All these compounds serve to retain heat and accordingly must be involved in global warming. Another factor is soot produced by by the incomplete oxidation of fossil fuels, chiefly coal.
Any factor which reduces the reflection back into space of incident solar energy will, as it increases, produce a runaway, positive feed back (PFB) effect which will result, among other things, in the thermal expansion of the seas which has already begun. The surface of the earth is becoming darker which I now believe to be the primary cause of global warming and dramatic climate change. The retreat of the glaciers and the melting of polar ice add to the fraction of the earth’s surface which absorbs rather than reflects solar energy. However, they are of comparatively small significance themselves and I withdraw my earlier appraisal of their importance.
I do not believe that the changes in the energy output of the sun are playing a significant role in regulating the climate of the earth.
What I find most alarming is the certainty with which so many pundits, mostly political Conservatives, dismiss global warming and climate change as bunk. As a political Conservative myself, I find their posture embarrassing.
“For fools rush in where angels fear to tread….A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.”
Alexander Pope
I welcome any responses.
“Mankind fiddled while earth burned.”
http://www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org/
I find this lnk to be an unbiased source concerning global warming and climate change.
One thing I find perplexing is that so many Conservative pundits downplay and even openly ridicule the notion of global warming. They include influential voices like Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Steve Forbes. I believe that their political opposition to Al Gore blinds their objectivity to what is a real threat to our survival. We should remember that before Gore’s sensationalized alarmism that Conservative voices like Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair had correctly identified the dangers of global warming. It is unfortunate that politics invariably intrudes into areas in which it has no expertise whatsoever. It always has.
It will be interesting to see if the Copenhagen Conference next month will produce a rational response to what I regard as a mounting danger unlike anything in our history.
I recommend Tim Flannery’s “The Weather Makers” for an objective analysis of the global warming controversy.